Question: What can a church do to protect congregation during services. During a conversation with elders about this issue How can a church legally protest in event of an attack if no members have a w & C permit how can this be done. Are churches allowed to have armed members in church during services. What kind of training should be done ? Pistol or shotgun, personal defense classes. Where do churches legally stand or what is the law on self protection in the church setting. Is there any case law on churches having someone teach members self defense with firearms, what type to use, Any ideas ? Maybe someone can guide me to a lawyer or someone versed in this issue. Just what is the law concerning church protection ? The time to prepare is now but what is legal. I know a lot of questions but need some help or a boot in the right direction. Thanks
Churches during these trying times
- Thread starter blueblood
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Sub Vet
Liberty Hound
- Jun 26, 2015
- 29
Answer: Maintain trust and faith.
Psalm 121:7
The Lord will keep you from all harm, he will watch over your life;
I don't want to sound sarcastic, this is the first thing that came to mind (this could be considered the first thing to do).
Allium
Senior Keyboard Operator
- Feb 10, 2007
- 2,731
I looked for the phase god helps those who helps themeselves and found it is not a bible phrase but I did find something from the sanskrit that even though it isnt christian, has the ring of truth
"to those who think if we pray to god, god will come and deliver us;
to those who think god is going to deliver us only if we believe in this or that form of god (whether indian or not);
to them - god will not come down and stand on your doorstep like a guard, will not be with you all the time like a body guard. while faith is important, it is the intelligence that god gives along with other skills that intelligence/mind can use, that ultimately saves us."
"to those who think if we pray to god, god will come and deliver us;
to those who think god is going to deliver us only if we believe in this or that form of god (whether indian or not);
to them - god will not come down and stand on your doorstep like a guard, will not be with you all the time like a body guard. while faith is important, it is the intelligence that god gives along with other skills that intelligence/mind can use, that ultimately saves us."
- Dec 27, 2012
- 30,215
I try to sit next to a guy wearing 5.11 pants.
JoppaJ will chime in I'm sure.
JoppaJ will chime in I'm sure.
wlc
Ultimate Member
- Nov 13, 2006
- 3,521
Is trust and faith the name of a manufacturer of bullet proof vests?
Half-cocked
Senior Meatbag
- Mar 14, 2006
- 23,937
What does the governing body which runs the church have to say?
In the end, it is they who have the ultimate say on whether or not anyone in the congregation should be armed on church property.
It's private property, after all.
In the end, it is they who have the ultimate say on whether or not anyone in the congregation should be armed on church property.
It's private property, after all.
- Dec 27, 2012
- 30,215
Is a church treated the same as a business as far as carrying on the premises?
Could they appoint a security team and designate those people as "managers"?
shooterhyde
Active Member
- Sep 9, 2013
- 197
He said to them, “But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one." - Luke 22:36
I agree with an SubVet but I think we are also taught to be prepared. I don't think I'd put deacons out front holding ARs but some discreet security...
I agree with an SubVet but I think we are also taught to be prepared. I don't think I'd put deacons out front holding ARs but some discreet security...
Duck and Cover? We did that in elementary school in the 50s.
redeemed.man
Ultimate Member
"If" someone were to be appointed a management employee (pay them $1 per year salary) I think they would absolutely qualify to carry at "work". Key words being "employees and "manager". Follow standard transport guidelines. If transporting offerings for the church I could see an easy G&S permit approval.
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robmints
Ultimate Member
- Jan 20, 2011
- 5,125
Don't ask, don't tell.
gamer_jim
Podcaster
Honest question:
How do you apply this to what happened at the Charleston church?
Those people were apparently of faith but were harmed. I mean no malice in my question. I'm honestly struggling with these sorts of questions.
Sub Vet
Liberty Hound
- Jun 26, 2015
- 29
I am sorry, didn't mean to hijack the thread and start this type of conversation.
I personally agree with boundlessdyad on this.
It seems that if a church can employ a janitor (or whatever) than they can also employ an armed guard. You should need only research the rules and guidelines for the same situation for a mall or bank or whatever.
Denial is not an effective strategy.
Being disarmed is not an effective tactic if you value your life and the lives of those you care about.
Surely those who would do you harm will not be hampered by rules, laws or societal mores or values.
Churches are homes for holiness. So, too, are they consistently places where folks are not typically prepared mentally or physically for violent confrontation. Thus the pasture where sheep may be taken without concern of a shepherd or sheepdog being present.
Being disarmed is not an effective tactic if you value your life and the lives of those you care about.
Surely those who would do you harm will not be hampered by rules, laws or societal mores or values.
Churches are homes for holiness. So, too, are they consistently places where folks are not typically prepared mentally or physically for violent confrontation. Thus the pasture where sheep may be taken without concern of a shepherd or sheepdog being present.
travistheone
Usual Suspect
do what you think is right. Concealed carry means concealed, except to god
redeemed.man
Ultimate Member
Requirements are more stringent and so is the training required to actually hire an armed guard. Management employee on the other hand can carry with no permit required in the church. It is likely that employees should be paid hence my $1 per year suggestion.I am sorry, didn't mean to hijack the thread and start this type of conversation.
I personally agree with boundlessdyad on this.
It seems that if a church can employ a janitor (or whatever) than they can also employ an armed guard. You should need only research the rules and guidelines for the same situation for a mall or bank or whatever.
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Sub Vet
Liberty Hound
- Jun 26, 2015
- 29
redeemed.man
Ultimate Member
It would be a good idea to get the handgun permit so that you can make the bank runs though
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My fathers church in Manheim PA has armed security. I visit often and always make a point to thank the guards for keeping us safer. I wouldn't be surprised if there were attendees packing either.
Trekker
Active Member
I will say right off the bat that I have no knowledge of what conditions are required for possession of a firearm within a church, or what precautions/arrangement would need to be made for liability purposes. That said, if the question is "What can a church do to protect congregation during services?", I consider having church management discussing the matter with one or more responsible and discerning members willing to sit at the back of the service. Churches with more available funds would also have the option of hiring dedicated security personnel.
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