GSG AK47 .22lr is legal, right?

circadia · Apr 23, 2014

An FFL told me I'll need to get something in writing from either the state police or the attorney general saying that the GSG AK47 .22lr is an approved rifle before he'll order it for me.

Is there actually an approved rifle list? I thought all rifles were legal except those that are specifically banned by name or by copycat features test, which only applies to centerfire.

Am I crazy or is my FFL crazy?

ST19AG_WGreymon · Apr 23, 2014

.22lr copies of "banned" rifles are legal.

ST19AG_WGreymon · Apr 23, 2014

http://www.nssf.org/share/PDF/MDRuling.pdf

chale127 · Apr 23, 2014

Find another FFL.....

circadia · Apr 23, 2014

Thank you very much for the link. I didn't think I was crazy! And I had no idea where to look for written proof.

Inigoes · Apr 23, 2014

Your FFL is crazy

The MSP issued advisories to FFLs in 2010, 10-1 and 10-2

MSP 10-1.PDF

MSP 10-2

NateIU10 · Apr 23, 2014

That's actually an interesting one. The issue is the "Avtomat Kalashnikov Semiautomatic rifle in any form" language. Is it an Avotmat Kalashnikov semiautomatic rifle in any form? I'm honestly not sure, and the "Copy" tests may not really help us here, as the actual named firearm is such a broad category of firearms itself.

The way the Roster Board banned the Uzi 22lr pistol was stating that, while it is not a copy of a named assault weapon, it is itself a named assault weapon.

Mooseman · Apr 23, 2014

It is legal. It's .22LR. It is not evil, it just looks that way.

A1Uni · Apr 23, 2014

Very good question since ALL AK variants are banned.

I am sure your FFL's concern was later scrutiny by MSP which is not likely to go in favor of a dealer in these too close to call matters.

Inigoes · Apr 23, 2014

A1Uniform said:
Very good question since ALL AK variants are banned.

I am sure your FFL's concern was later scrutiny by MSP which is not likely to go in favor of a dealer in these too close to call matters.

Answered in post #6

See the MDSP advisories

NateIU10 · Apr 23, 2014

Inigoes said:
Your FFL is crazy

The MSP issued advisories to FFLs in 2010, 10-1 and 10-2

MSP 10-1.PDF

The issue is that only addresses whether 22lr "copies" are more than cosmetically similar. I see the issue as what the named firearm encompass for that category. Some Assault Long Guns ARE 22lr.

Think of it like this. The AK74 rifle is banned. An AK rifle in 556 is banned. neither have completely interchangeable parts, therefore they are not copies of each other. However, each is included in the definition of Assault Weapon by virtue of the "Avtomat Kalashnikov semiautomatic rifle in all forms."

Inigoes · Apr 23, 2014

NateIU10 said:
The issue is that only addresses whether 22lr "copies" are more than cosmetically similar. I see the issue as what the named firearm encompass for that category. Some Assault Long Guns ARE 22lr.

Think of it like this. The AK74 rifle is banned. An AK rifle in 556 is banned. neither have completely interchangeable parts, therefore they are not copies of each other. However, each is included in the definition of Assault Weapon by virtue of the "Avtomat Kalashnikov semiautomatic rifle in all forms."

Read 10-2, and then comment again

A1Uni · Apr 23, 2014

Inigoes said:
Answered in post #6

See the MDSP advisories

Those advisories are a bit outdated (2010), and updated "guidance" has been offered since then conflicts with those advisories. These may well be legal.

At any rate, I'm not going to get into a debate, just pointing out that dealers are in in a tight spot in between customers and the State Police, who control their Dealer's license.

Inigoes · Apr 23, 2014

A1Uniform said:
At any rate, I'm not going to get into a debate, just pointing out that dealers are in in a tight spot in between customers and the State Police, who control their Dealer's license.

Yes, you are.

However, that is the latest publicized guidance the MSP has released on the matter.

If you have something more recent, please feel free to present it.

NateIU10 · Apr 23, 2014

Inigoes said:
Read 10-2, and then comment again

I have, multiple times. That has to do with copies. I am saying that the MSP could easily conclude that the firearm is not a COPY of an enumerated assault weapon, but is instead a NAMED assault weapons. That is how the Roster Board has stated that the Uzi 22 pistol is an assault pistol. This is not as cut and dry as you are attempting to make it.

This issues is especially pertinent based on the fact that the Avtomat kalashnikov category is, by far, the widest-ranging of the named assault long guns (I would argue unconstitutionally vague, but that's for a later day.) I think it would be insane for the MSP to deem it an assault weapon, but they have already done so with the Uzi 22 pistol, so it is not out of the realm of possibility.

aquaman · Apr 23, 2014

just buy it at the Chantilly show.

circadia · Apr 23, 2014

aquaman said:
just buy it at the Chantilly show.

This may be the best idea. If there's confusion about this issue here, I think I'll have a hard time convincing an already skeptical FFL that it's legal.

circadia · Apr 23, 2014

NateIU10 said:
I have, multiple times. That has to do with copies. I am saying that the MSP could easily conclude that the firearm is not a COPY of an enumerated assault weapon, but is instead a NAMED assault weapons. That is how the Roster Board has stated that the Uzi 22 pistol is an assault pistol. This is not as cut and dry as you are attempting to make it.

This issues is especially pertinent based on the fact that the Avtomat kalashnikov category is, by far, the widest-ranging of the named assault long guns (I would argue unconstitutionally vague, but that's for a later day.) I think it would be insane for the MSP to deem it an assault weapon, but they have already done so with the Uzi 22 pistol, so it is not out of the realm of possibility.

Here's my thinking on it:

The definition of a copy is laid out in SB281 and does not apply to rimfire. So the only way this rifle could be banned by SB281 is if it's lumped into the "AK in all forms" line item on the regulated assault weapons list. But it had previously been clarified by the MSP that .22lr reproductions/imitations of "assault weapons" were not regulated as "assault weapons".

To put it another way, if you take a list of regulated rifles and ban them, the rifles that had already been excluded from that list would not be banned. Of course, I'm using logic, which is something Maryland legislature does not use :rolleyes:

NateIU10 · Apr 23, 2014

circadia said:
Here's my thinking on it:

The definition of a copy is laid out in SB281 and does not apply to rimfire. So the only way this rifle could be banned by SB281 is if it's lumped into the "AK in all forms" line item on the regulated assault weapons list. But it had previously been clarified by the MSP that .22lr reproductions/imitations of "assault weapons" were not regulated as "assault weapons".

To put it another way, if you take a list of regulated rifles and ban them, the rifles that had already been excluded from that list would not be banned. Of course, I'm using logic, which is something Maryland legislature does not use

FSA 2013 did not address what makes something a Copy of an ALG, or any other assault weapon. Part of the problem is the MSP is left to determine that, it is nowhere in COMAR or the Code. In fact, some of the Assault Long Guns listed are indeed 22lr firearms.

The issue here is, what is the item described as a Kalashnikov rifle in all forms? Obviously, we cannot use the copy test the MSP formulated in 2010 to determine if something is a Kalashnikov, as that bans many firearms and their copies that DO NOT have interchangeable internal components. It is easier when the ALG being examined is a specific model of firearm (ie. AR15).

reechee · Apr 25, 2014

sigh...i get more and more depressed with the laws in this state every day.

GSG AK47 .22lr is legal, right?

The #1 community for Gun Owners of the Northeast

Member Benefits:

Active Member

Ultimate Member

Ultimate Member

Ultimate Member

Active Member

Head'n for the hills

Ultimate Member

R.I.P.- Hooligan #4

Ultimate Member

Head'n for the hills

Ultimate Member

Head'n for the hills

Ultimate Member

Head'n for the hills

Ultimate Member

Ultimate Member

Active Member

Active Member

Ultimate Member

Tacticool

Users who are viewing this thread

Log in

Forum statistics