Jack McCauley's latest video about MD's permitting process

swinokur said:

Here's the portion from the MD statute 4-203. I don't think simply walking your dog would apply but IANAL

Maybe you could say you're teaching him how to obey while you walk? You still could not carry a loaded firearm while engaged in this activity if this is the law Jack was referring to.

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Warning, I am not a lawyer. I do think Jack is correct based on how 4-203 is written.

The exceptions in 4-203 don't make any sense unless you understand them to mean that carrying while dog obedience training in class or show is legal. If someone reads that and concludes you can't wear or carry a firearm unless it's enclosed and unloaded during dog training; they would also have to conclude that informal target shooting and everything else is illegal unless you keep the gun enclosed and unloaded while participating in the activity.

In other words, I think the enclosed and unloaded only applies to the transporting to/from all the activities exempted from the wear, carry, and transport ban.

Correct?

BradyWarrior, your argument is logical based upon the classical rules of grammar. However, in this progressive post-republic era we all know that words can't be burdened with any meaning.

BradyWarrior said:

Warning, I am not a lawyer. I do think Jack is correct based on how 4-203 is written.

The exceptions in 4-203 don't make any sense unless you understand them to mean that carrying while dog obedience training in class or show is legal. If someone reads that and concludes you can't wear or carry a firearm unless it's enclosed and unloaded during dog training; they would also have to conclude that informal target shooting and everything else is illegal unless you keep the gun enclosed and unloaded while participating in the activity.

In other words, I think the enclosed and unloaded only applies to the transporting to/from all the activities exempted from the wear, carry, and transport ban.

Correct?

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sorry to inform, but to the liberal gun-grabbing folk, this is a loop-hole that needs to be closed. i can see the headlines now "dog walker arrested in conceal-carry sting operation..." CLOSE THE LOOPHOLE NOW!

opinions?

MDS German Shepard group buy?

CypherPunk said:

MDS German Shepard group buy?

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Psst.. You can take your lap dogs to dog school too! Lol

lx1x said:

Psst.. You can take your lap dogs to dog school too! Lol

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but you can only carry a derringer

AntiGun said:

but you can only carry a derringer

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Lol...

So if I want to carry a 50bmg.. What dog? Newfins?

well even if that's correct the ambiguity of dog training remains. Can the mere act of walking your dog be construed as training or a show?

ETA-how do you interpret "engaged in if..."

I see Bradywarriror's point, but it seems just as likely it could be interpreted either way.

(4) the wearing, carrying, or transporting by a person of a handgun used in connection with an organized military activity, a target shoot, formal or informal target practice, sport shooting event, hunting, a Department of Natural Resources-sponsored firearms and hunter safety class, trapping, or a dog obedience training class or show, while the person is engaged in, on the way to, or returning from that activity if each handgun is unloaded and carried in an enclosed case or an enclosed holster;

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I do agree if you look at legislative intent Brady's opinion seems logical, but it is MD after all.

Guys, make sure you are subscribing to Jacks Youtube channel.

therapy-dog-information
Transform your dog into a therapy dog. Every time you take it out you are training it on socialization. As a bonus, if the police officer gets upset at you and thinks you are trying to pull a fast one, he can pet the dog to help himself calm down and relieve some of the tension.

i like it.

This video is all well and good (and very true), and while I am happy for Tim, and anyone else who has finagled the system to get their permit, the awful bloody truth is that Maryland does NOT want regular folks like you me to carry a gun.

They would prefer "We rely upon the good will of our fellow man - and the forbearance of reptiles".

I'll let someone else test the dog walking theory. Keep us all posted please
Didn't I read above "unloaded in a holster" ? That does a lot of good on your walk, for potential bracelets..

I teach many variations of dog obedience classes in a variety of settings. One class I teach is Man Tracking. Like law enforcement K9 Search and Rescue, I teach citizens who are simply interested in an adventure with their dogs, to track human scent. Many of you don't know it but I work for my wife who is an incredible dog trainer and a former police K9 trainer. She owns her own dog training business. Our advanced dog training classes are conducted in an urban environment where the areas are more heavily contaminated with other human scent. The dogs are tracking the target (a person hiding) in areas such as convenience stores, parking lots, public building etc. Each of my clients are, by law, allowed to carry a loaded handgun while engaged in these dog training obedience classes. While they are en route to such classes, the firearm must be carried unloaded as prescribed in Maryland law, the same as a person traveling to and from a gun range. But while they are on the public street, engaged in the dog obedience training, they can carry a loaded handgun without a permit. We train nearly 200 dogs a week, at times more. Most of those classes occur on my private property where they can carry with my permission anyway. But the dog obedience class gives them the lawful permission to transport to and from the class as well. I don't think this was the intent of the law. It doesn't really make sense to me. The exception is likely intended to give the professional trainer (not the clients) the opportunity to carry a handgun for his/her personal safety and protect himself as a last resort from an aggressive dog. Personally, I'd have a very hard time shooting any dog for any reason. But that's how Maryland gun laws work. My video was focused on the issue of a friend who also trains his dogs in public locations. He spends a lot of time training these dogs with groups of volunteers. He is allowed to carry a handgun for these dog obedience classes. The FOCUS of the video was the arbitrary requirement that the Maryland State Police sets requiring him to obtain a letter from a law enforcement agency saying they want him to be armed while running searches for them when he is not in a training setting. I realize that my comments can get a little "loose" at times as someone pointed out. You may have to get used to that with me. I believe in honest speak. I rarely prepare for these videos. I believe if you are speaking the truth there is more value. Some of you must be confused on who I think I am or what I do. I am just an average Joe. I am a nobody. I just happen to have some unique insights and experiences that I think are worth sharing with those who are struggling to understand why their 2A rights are being demolished by our government and our representatives. I am sickened by what has happened with Maryland gun laws. My reputation is of very little concern. I am NOT a politician. Sometimes the things I say are given more scrutiny than I anticipate. Maybe for everyone's sake I should be a little more careful. But, I am not worried about my credibility. I sometimes get things wrong. When I do, I admit it. I have done so before and I am sure I will do it again. I only hope to educate each of you on my experiences. I was just trying to make a point about the arbitrary requirements. If you missed that, then I need to do a better job. I will work to improve my messages for everyone so we can work together on fixing problems. I apologize for any confusing or any previously misstated policies. It all is confusing, even for me. I would guess that's why we have Attorney's offering many legal opinions on statutes. But many of those opinions don't match federal law. And many of those opinions, you and I know, are wrong and politically motivated. But those opinions can help you get arrested. So, you might want to follow those opinions instead of mine.

The observation that the MSP looks to remove any liability when issuing handgun permits I think is spot on. This will not change until the law changes.

I think that the law is ambiguous, and that is the intent - to give the authorities as much discretion as possible. So if 4 reasonable people can read the law different ways, probably they are all right.

Jack McCauley said:

But while they are on the public street, engaged in the dog obedience training, they can carry a loaded handgun without a permit.

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Thank you for the clarification.

My new puppy will be "man-tracking" and learning to sit/stay on every walk I take him on.

Objee said:

Thank you for the clarification.

My new puppy will be "man-tracking" and learning to sit/stay on every walk I take him on.

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Lol.. It didn't say specific on who can train .. So I think you are good to go.. (First test case if you get busted).

Time to file LLC as a professional dog walker.

sent a contact letter directly to Governor Larry Hogan's office .....