Does a Trust have an Address? Trustees in Different States

ericoak · Mar 3, 2015

I created a trust a couple of years ago when I was living at my parents in MD and made my Dad a trustee. I moved out of state and leave the gun with my Dad or file a 5320.20 when I want to bring it down.

I want to buy another NFA item, but unsure as to whether the Trust can have NFA items registered both in MD with my Dad and with me in GA. I can always just have my Dad buy it for me in MD I guess, but would rather not bother him with it. Trying to get this done before the new EO makes NFA Trust purchases much more difficult.

safecracker · Mar 3, 2015

I'd ask the attorney who set up the trust to see what your options are. It would be interesting to know if there is such a thing as an "interstate trust".

ericoak · Mar 3, 2015

Yea I plan on calling my attorney tomorrow, but I always like to do research so I can ask more thorough questions.

Semper Noctem · Mar 4, 2015

ericoak said:
I created a trust a couple of years ago when I was living at my parents in MD and made my Dad a trustee. I moved out of state and leave the gun with my Dad or file a 5320.20 when I want to bring it down.

I want to buy another NFA item, but unsure as to whether the Trust can have NFA items registered both in MD with my Dad and with me in GA. I can always just have my Dad buy it for me in MD I guess, but would rather not bother him with it. Trying to get this done before the new EO makes NFA Trust purchases much more difficult.

I'd be interested in knowing the answer to this question - should you get one.

anderson76 · Mar 5, 2015

In theory I don’t see a legal obstacle for having an NFA trust with NFA items principally administered in 2 different states. However, this may cause unnecessary complications.

Why don’t you just use a separate trust to acquire NFA items in Georgia?

ericoak · Mar 5, 2015

anderson76 said:
In theory I don’t see a legal obstacle for having an NFA trust with NFA items principally administered in 2 different states. However, this may cause unnecessary complications.

Why don’t you just use a separate trust to acquire NFA items in Georgia?

Well I would certainly prefer not to have to pay for another trust. I guess I could just change the name of my trust slightly but keep the wording the same. That way in the ATF system it wouldn't have the Trust owning property at multiple residences.

anderson76 · Mar 5, 2015

Save your money. You should be able to recycle your old trust. Assuming it is drafted just like every other revocable trust it will be valid in under GA law. I would suggest that you make some change to the name of trust to avoid confusion. FWIW I have NFA stuff spread out across 3 states each in separate trusts.

ericoak · Mar 5, 2015

That is an awesome idea. I called my lawyer and he said that Trusts generally do have what I will term a state of residence or establishment. Therefore, if I buy something down here in GA, the item would have to be legal in MD since the trust is established in MD. That isn't a problem with suppressors, but might be for other item in the future.

rico903 · Mar 6, 2015

Interesting thread. I have a trust and a friend who wants one. Couldn't he just scan my trust and make the pertinent changes to it for his and create his trust this way?

Pinecone · Mar 6, 2015

It depends on how you got your trust.

If you paid someone for it, it is copyrighted material, and doing what you are suggesting would be illegal.

If you wrote it yourself, or got it from the public domain, you could do that.

rob-cubed · Mar 6, 2015

rico903 said:
Interesting thread. I have a trust and a friend who wants one. Couldn't he just scan my trust and make the pertinent changes to it for his and create his trust this way?

Feasibly, yes. However trusts are a state-based entity, if the friend lives in a different state it should be reviewed by a lawyer practicing in that state. More importantly, the structure of trustees and beneficiaries won't be the same for every person. A married guy vs unmarried, kids vs no kids. That's where an attorney will do most of the customizing, based on your situation.

Mike OTDP · Mar 6, 2015

Could a MD resident establish a trust out of state? This might be a good way to buy and keep items out of MD.

Pinecone · Mar 6, 2015

Yes, but then you may have to store them out of state. And in the case of SBR/SBS, BATFE might not give you permission to bring them in to play with them.

Mike OTDP · Mar 6, 2015

This is true...but it would give you access to firearms not accessible under current state law. Very useful if you intend to move.

ericoak · Mar 6, 2015

Mike OTDP said:
Could a MD resident establish a trust out of state? This might be a good way to buy and keep items out of MD.

Pinecone said:
Yes, but then you may have to store them out of state. And in the case of SBR/SBS, BATFE might not give you permission to bring them in to play with them.

Mike OTDP said:
This is true...but it would give you access to firearms not accessible under current state law. Very useful if you intend to move.

In the research I have done to answer this question, it sounded like the BAFTE wouldn't approve the form unless all the Trustees were legally allowed access to the firearms in their home state.

I'm not a lawyer.

anderson76 · Mar 6, 2015

rico903 said:
Interesting thread. I have a trust and a friend who wants one. Couldn't he just scan my trust and make the pertinent changes to it for his and create his trust this way?

Maybe. This what your attorney did when he drafted your trust agreement. All that the trust agreement does is memorialize the grantor’s intent to create a trust and the grantor’s intent to have the trust property administered in a certain manner.

If you and your buddy share the same intent / objectives – then yes your trust agreement should work for him. However, as rob-cubed already noted, your objectives may diverge.

Pinecone said:
It depends on how you got your trust.

If you paid someone for it, it is copyrighted material, and doing what you are suggesting would be illegal.

If you wrote it yourself, or got it from the public domain, you could do that.

Ownership over the intellectual property rights to commissioned attorney work product raises a number of interesting issues. Client pays attorney to draft document. Attorney drafts document, which in all likelihood, contains language that is not entirely the attorney’s original and creative expression. The document purports to capture and memorialize the client’s wishes to create a trust and the client’s wishes to have the trust property administered in a certain manner. Client then takes this document and sends 1 copy to the BATF. Later, client changes some words in the document and sends a 2nd copy to BATF.

Has client infringed on attorney’s copyright? I don’t know. However, assuming such action amounts to infringement, I cannot imagine scenario or sequence of events that would cause the client to be subjected criminal or civil liability. Maybe your imagination is better than mine.

Mike OTDP said:
Could a MD resident establish a trust out of state? This might be a good way to buy and keep items out of MD.

You really would have to proceed with caution. Remember, you have to contend with federal & state transfer & possession restrictions along with residency requirements. OP acquired his MD NFA stash while he resided in MD. Now he resides in GA, he wants to acquire NFA stuff in GA. This is different from crossing states lines to get cool NFA stuff that you can’t get in MD and stashing it in your buddies closet across state lines.

rico903 · Mar 7, 2015

In my case it is one of my best friend's sons. He's into gun, his father isn't. At first I was going to amend my trust and ad him as co trustee and beneficiary to the suppressors in the trust. No guns at this time. But he wants to buy a can and I may do an SBR so it would get too messy. My thought was just to scan my trust then change the pertinent info to fit him and then print it for him to file. I did pay for my trust but I have to imagine the atty used some type of template somewhere along the line so I don't feel it would be copy righted material, plus I paid for the material. And what if for instance I wanted to use an online form to amend my trust, I don't think that would violate copy right either.

Pinecone · Mar 7, 2015

Amending a trust is NOT the same thing as supplying a copy to someone else to use.

And remember, you are trying to screw an ATTORNEY, who can sue you without putting out a lot of their own money.

rico903 · Mar 8, 2015

Pinecone said:
Amending a trust is NOT the same thing as supplying a copy to someone else to use.

And remember, you are trying to screw an ATTORNEY, who can sue you without putting out a lot of their own money.

So where did the free on line trust forms come from? Some atty at some point contributed to them I'd guess. I would think for an atty to sue his/her trust would have to be totally unique to them which I find hard to believe.

Pinecone · Mar 8, 2015

1) An attorney could be public minded enough to write the free trust and then offer it into the public domain. That makes it available to everyone.

2) Do you want to have to pay another attorney to defend you in the case? The attorney suing you is losing some personal time. You are losing time and MONEY.

It doesn't matter if you win the case, you still pay your attorney.

Does a Trust have an Address? Trustees in Different States

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