I was asked by a couple folks on the DIY suppressor thread to expand on what I knew about the legality of such things. Since that OP asked to keep the legal issues out of his thread, here is the new one.
Link to orig DIY thread: “Form 1 $100 homemade suppressor”
http://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=166767
First off:
1)I am NOT a Lawyer. I don't play one on TV. I did not stay at a Holiday Inn last night.
2)I am NOT the ATF (or a mind reader.) I don't know what the ATF is thinking when they write letters and make laws. They often appear to not know what they are doing either (though I often suspect they know EXACTLY what they are doing.) Logic does not always apply with alphabet government agencies.
So this is my personal best interpretation given the data the ATF has published. I have dozens of stamps and a half dozen approved form 1s. My machining/manufacturing capabilities at home are **WELL** beyond the level required in the orig DIY thread. So I have some experience with this and simply try my best to keep myself out of trouble w/ the law. If you want to make an NFA item yourself it is imperative you search the ATFs rulings (the letters are all out there on google images) and do your OWN research. Silencertalk is a good forum that covers a lot of this. So here it goes...
Suppressor parts USED to be unregulated. You could buy replacement Sionics wipes and other baffles/parts at gunshows. Turns out too many people bought the parts and were making illegal unregistered suppressors so the ATF canned that. All internal suppressor parts are now regulated per the ATF. The can, any internals, and any end caps that hold the internals in. If you have a baffle strike or destroy and endcap the whole thing has to go back to a licensed manufacturer now. They can not send you replacement parts and usually directly state as such on their websites and warranties. Note this does NOT cover thread adapters *IF* they aren't the part that holds the guts inside. Thus, lots of manufacturers now make adapters that thread into an endcap. Those are external parts and are not regulated. Gemtech multimount, AAC, Bowers, etc. Its how they are almost all done now due to the flexibliity it provides. There are even manufacturers now that have replaceable front caps like the Saker.
http://www.silencershop.com/shop/saker-556-flash-hider-front-cap/
Note that is a non-serviceable welded rifle cans and the front cap isn't required to hold parts in or even be present to fire it AFAIK. I actually have a Saker556 but have never bothered to take the front cap off.
I'm not aware of any exceptions (but not saying there aren't any either!)
Also of note on this is Sig’s fight against the ATF to get the MPXs uniquely shaped brake classified as such and not as a suppressor baffle. Its clearly a suppressor baffle. Sig even has stated plans to sell a NFA suppressor sleeve to slide over it and complete it so the intent is clear. So unless they win that lawsuit, possession of parts is still no-go w/o a stamp.
They were cracking down on everything but in 2010 I think wipes were exempted (though very few cans use wipes anymore.)
Note the highlighted part that it requires a licensed manufacturer to replace parts. There is some discussion/grey area that as w/ a form 1stamp in hand you are definitely the manufacturer. But you aren’t licensed. Im no lawyer but I suspect they mean an FFL07 manufacturers license and not my drivers license. So are you allowed to replace baffles in suppressors you’ve already made? The majority of opinions (though the majority isn’t always right) that I have read seem to indicate it is not legal. From my interpretation of the letters I side w/ them and don’t do it.
Ok, now to the legaility of owning parts and the all important order. In the form 1 SBR/SBS world its generally well accepted that you:
1) apply for a stamp
2) engrave the receiver w/ information (either before or after the stamp is approved)
3) receive approved stamp
4) THEN make the SBR/SBS.
You do not cut a barrel before you have the receiver engraved as you, even if only temporarily, have made an unmarked SBR. You can only imagine showing up to an engraver (like Bollinger’s as an IP here), handing them an unmarked and illegal SBS to put your info on? I believe they are REQUIRED to seize it and call the ATF immediately else risk their FFL license. Doesn’t matter that you have an approved stamp. An NFA firearm w/o required markings is illegal. If you have the capability to stamp/engrave the info in your basement immediately after cutting a barrel, then what you do in the privacy of your own home is only known to you, but I suggest staying legal at all points in the process.
Which brings us to the silencer issue. When can you posses the parts. This got a lot of attention when “oil fitler solvent trap adapters” started showing up everywhere. Its interesting to note the DIY thread OP here calls his a “solvent trap” until the stamp is approved. “Register the adapter and replace the filter they said.” Well, someone (probably Chad
) wrote a letter to the ATF asking for clarification:
http://i.imgur.com/Eh4Pe.jpg (can't embed it here because the pic is HUGE)
The most important part, IMO, to get out of this letter is the last Q & A. (bold emphasis mine)
“Q: Does the possesion of spare ‘oil filters’ by a non-licensed manufacturer that are not installed on the registered silencer (muzzle adapter) violate any Federal laws?
A: Yes. Please note that certain commercially available items such as bottles, rubber washers, copper pads, and steel wool may be used toassemble firearm silencers. Such items are unregulated until a possessor assembles, accumulates, or otherwise intends to use an item of this type to make a silencer. Once such an item(s) is possessed with the intent to use in assembling or repairing a firearm silencer, it comes within the purview of the NFA and is properly classified as a ‘firearm silencer.’””
The ATF effectively made owning brillo pads illegal in some circumstances. So while the OP of the DIY thread made a ‘solvent trap’ while waiting for his stamp, how does one prove to the ATF that they didn’t intend to make a silencer when in fact they filed an application with them to do so? Never mind also posting on the internet the same intent… I’ll just leave it at that.
The generally accepted order is similar to SBR/SBS:
1) get stamp approved
2) buy raw materials
3) get the tube engraved
4) THEN fabricate the internals
You are waiting 2-6 months (efile vs paper) for the stamp to be approved. Whats a couple more days shipping delay on the parts after that? There is some argument about do you buy just the tube to engrave first and then the remaining parts or buy them all at once. I don’t know. I have hundreds of lbs of spare raw material available for other machining projects just sitting around already. Though I didn’t buy my tube until the stamp was approved.
Im well aware that “constructive possession” has never been used to successfully prosecute anyone. But that doesn’t make it legal. Its not difficult to do things in a safe and legal order. I’m sure not volunteering to be the test case!
In conclusion: Do your OWN research! Building things is fun. Buildings firearms is usually more fun because guns are cooler than that ugly birdhouse you made in shop class. Building NFA items is even MORE FUN because NFA stuff is just more badass. Its taboo to the general public. I dunno, maybe thats why I also find lesbian porn so hot? So go forth and make your suppressors and short barreled things (but unfortunately no machine guns
) Its easy to do and a LOT of fun! Just stay legal.
Link to orig DIY thread: “Form 1 $100 homemade suppressor”
http://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=166767
First off:
1)I am NOT a Lawyer. I don't play one on TV. I did not stay at a Holiday Inn last night.
2)I am NOT the ATF (or a mind reader.) I don't know what the ATF is thinking when they write letters and make laws. They often appear to not know what they are doing either (though I often suspect they know EXACTLY what they are doing.) Logic does not always apply with alphabet government agencies.
So this is my personal best interpretation given the data the ATF has published. I have dozens of stamps and a half dozen approved form 1s. My machining/manufacturing capabilities at home are **WELL** beyond the level required in the orig DIY thread. So I have some experience with this and simply try my best to keep myself out of trouble w/ the law. If you want to make an NFA item yourself it is imperative you search the ATFs rulings (the letters are all out there on google images) and do your OWN research. Silencertalk is a good forum that covers a lot of this. So here it goes...
Suppressor parts USED to be unregulated. You could buy replacement Sionics wipes and other baffles/parts at gunshows. Turns out too many people bought the parts and were making illegal unregistered suppressors so the ATF canned that. All internal suppressor parts are now regulated per the ATF. The can, any internals, and any end caps that hold the internals in. If you have a baffle strike or destroy and endcap the whole thing has to go back to a licensed manufacturer now. They can not send you replacement parts and usually directly state as such on their websites and warranties. Note this does NOT cover thread adapters *IF* they aren't the part that holds the guts inside. Thus, lots of manufacturers now make adapters that thread into an endcap. Those are external parts and are not regulated. Gemtech multimount, AAC, Bowers, etc. Its how they are almost all done now due to the flexibliity it provides. There are even manufacturers now that have replaceable front caps like the Saker.
http://www.silencershop.com/shop/saker-556-flash-hider-front-cap/
Note that is a non-serviceable welded rifle cans and the front cap isn't required to hold parts in or even be present to fire it AFAIK. I actually have a Saker556 but have never bothered to take the front cap off.
I'm not aware of any exceptions (but not saying there aren't any either!)
Also of note on this is Sig’s fight against the ATF to get the MPXs uniquely shaped brake classified as such and not as a suppressor baffle. Its clearly a suppressor baffle. Sig even has stated plans to sell a NFA suppressor sleeve to slide over it and complete it so the intent is clear. So unless they win that lawsuit, possession of parts is still no-go w/o a stamp.
They were cracking down on everything but in 2010 I think wipes were exempted (though very few cans use wipes anymore.)
Note the highlighted part that it requires a licensed manufacturer to replace parts. There is some discussion/grey area that as w/ a form 1stamp in hand you are definitely the manufacturer. But you aren’t licensed. Im no lawyer but I suspect they mean an FFL07 manufacturers license and not my drivers license. So are you allowed to replace baffles in suppressors you’ve already made? The majority of opinions (though the majority isn’t always right) that I have read seem to indicate it is not legal. From my interpretation of the letters I side w/ them and don’t do it.
Ok, now to the legaility of owning parts and the all important order. In the form 1 SBR/SBS world its generally well accepted that you:
1) apply for a stamp
2) engrave the receiver w/ information (either before or after the stamp is approved)
3) receive approved stamp
4) THEN make the SBR/SBS.
You do not cut a barrel before you have the receiver engraved as you, even if only temporarily, have made an unmarked SBR. You can only imagine showing up to an engraver (like Bollinger’s as an IP here), handing them an unmarked and illegal SBS to put your info on? I believe they are REQUIRED to seize it and call the ATF immediately else risk their FFL license. Doesn’t matter that you have an approved stamp. An NFA firearm w/o required markings is illegal. If you have the capability to stamp/engrave the info in your basement immediately after cutting a barrel, then what you do in the privacy of your own home is only known to you, but I suggest staying legal at all points in the process.
Which brings us to the silencer issue. When can you posses the parts. This got a lot of attention when “oil fitler solvent trap adapters” started showing up everywhere. Its interesting to note the DIY thread OP here calls his a “solvent trap” until the stamp is approved. “Register the adapter and replace the filter they said.” Well, someone (probably Chad
) wrote a letter to the ATF asking for clarification:http://i.imgur.com/Eh4Pe.jpg (can't embed it here because the pic is HUGE)
The most important part, IMO, to get out of this letter is the last Q & A. (bold emphasis mine)
“Q: Does the possesion of spare ‘oil filters’ by a non-licensed manufacturer that are not installed on the registered silencer (muzzle adapter) violate any Federal laws?
A: Yes. Please note that certain commercially available items such as bottles, rubber washers, copper pads, and steel wool may be used toassemble firearm silencers. Such items are unregulated until a possessor assembles, accumulates, or otherwise intends to use an item of this type to make a silencer. Once such an item(s) is possessed with the intent to use in assembling or repairing a firearm silencer, it comes within the purview of the NFA and is properly classified as a ‘firearm silencer.’””
The ATF effectively made owning brillo pads illegal in some circumstances. So while the OP of the DIY thread made a ‘solvent trap’ while waiting for his stamp, how does one prove to the ATF that they didn’t intend to make a silencer when in fact they filed an application with them to do so? Never mind also posting on the internet the same intent… I’ll just leave it at that.
The generally accepted order is similar to SBR/SBS:
1) get stamp approved
2) buy raw materials
3) get the tube engraved
4) THEN fabricate the internals
You are waiting 2-6 months (efile vs paper) for the stamp to be approved. Whats a couple more days shipping delay on the parts after that? There is some argument about do you buy just the tube to engrave first and then the remaining parts or buy them all at once. I don’t know. I have hundreds of lbs of spare raw material available for other machining projects just sitting around already. Though I didn’t buy my tube until the stamp was approved.
Im well aware that “constructive possession” has never been used to successfully prosecute anyone. But that doesn’t make it legal. Its not difficult to do things in a safe and legal order. I’m sure not volunteering to be the test case!
In conclusion: Do your OWN research! Building things is fun. Buildings firearms is usually more fun because guns are cooler than that ugly birdhouse you made in shop class. Building NFA items is even MORE FUN because NFA stuff is just more badass. Its taboo to the general public. I dunno, maybe thats why I also find lesbian porn so hot? So go forth and make your suppressors and short barreled things (but unfortunately no machine guns
) Its easy to do and a LOT of fun! Just stay legal.
With all of your capabilities and everything...
Thanks for the additional input.
