iobidder
1 point'er
21 foot rule
Don't Underestimate The Knife!
- Thread starter WeaponsCollector
- Start date
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come on.. thats chuck norris not dan.. lmao
I'm just hanging out. In the jungle... LMAO!
Reference to the video of the fat bloke.
Reference to the video of the fat bloke.
Here's a better video of an actual real situation of 4-6 cops with guns drawn, assault rifles, etc.... vs. 1 knife wielder.
Guess how many cops died?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75RTkGbiJpk
Guess how many cops died?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75RTkGbiJpk
Very true. I train knife fighting with all of mine up to dual machetes, and a lot too. And I also train Krav Maga with it's knife and gun disarming tactics, that are excellent. But if some thug gets the drop on me and demands my wallet at knife point, I'd just give it to him.
If I was out of arms length, may turn and run as I'm in fighter's shape and conditioning, which means very fast sprints vs. the average guy.
If I absolutely had to fight, I wouldn't draw my own knife nor gun (not that I can carry a gun in MD anyway)...not even use Krav...I would use my Boxing and quick jabs to the face to disorient him and follow up with the power shots. Going for the fast moving knife hand is way too risky.
I'm not that big of a fan of Inosanto.
Knife fighting is close range and the winner is usually the one dying later of blood loss at the hospital. Rage stabbing is all it takes. Martial Arts and all the fancy moves looks cool and all, and I train it myself....but just going crazy and stabbing, anyone can do effectively.
Like during WWII's Island Wars vs. Japan. They had thousands of years of Martial Arts while American Whiteboys didn't know any of that. And both sides ran out of ammo often...dug in within very close proximity.....thus, lots of hand to hand fighting. American soldiers killed a lot more Japanese with just rage stabbing. It just doesn't take much training to just go crazy with a short range edge weapon.
Now sword to sword, that's different as it's longer range and allows for much more footwork. Then there's the spear.
cb51
Active Member
So true, that the training goes out the window if you face a berserk, drug crazed, or desperate opponent in a knife fight. No amount of training is going to keep you from being cut. A friend and I took some training way back in the mid 1970's at Dale tompkins karate studio in Adalphi Maryland right there on University Blvd. Dale and his teachers were good, but my friend and I were both army vets, and had done some basic knife training. In drills, when it was all done in the careful rehearsed moves they taught us, all was well. But When my friend and I decided to use our own background in knife training, even the best black belt instructors got marked by the rubber training knives we had. Yeah, they kicked the crap out of us, but by the time we hit the mat, they had some embarrassing red chalk marks on their nice white suits. Some of the chalk marks were in some very bad places to be cut deep.
A knife in the hands of someone trying to kill you is a nasty thing. You have to block and get away from from it, not ever trying to fight with it by pulling your own short ranged knife. Rage stabbing, no matter if fueled by meth, race, greed, or whatever, will slice and dice you before they go down. They will take you with them. Pepper spray, collapsable baton, walking stick, and well fitted New Balance running shoes are a lot better than another knife.
OEFvet
Member
I keep myself proficient with my knife, but not because I think it would likely be the best solution to a typical self defense situation, I just like to be able to handle whatever might come my way.
There is no chance that I would willingly engage in a knife duel with someone, I would look like spiderman climbing walls and shit to escape long before I went CQ in plain clothing against someone holding a knife.
In the states a knife just is not a realistic option for self defense, it will almost always go past or fall short of the proportionate response, which means you are likely dead or in jail. If my hands wont work, all those years of early morning cardio probably will.
There is no chance that I would willingly engage in a knife duel with someone, I would look like spiderman climbing walls and shit to escape long before I went CQ in plain clothing against someone holding a knife.
In the states a knife just is not a realistic option for self defense, it will almost always go past or fall short of the proportionate response, which means you are likely dead or in jail. If my hands wont work, all those years of early morning cardio probably will.
Pretty gruesome video. It's notable how nonchalant and even cavalier some of the officers were before the guy attacked. Maybe he was well known to them such that they didn't view him as a serious threat. Once he went after them, for several individuals, it seemed to snap them into a different reality, more than simply fear, but something outside of the range of their expectations.
Action picks up after 7 minutes in case folks want to take a quick look.
cb51
Active Member
I've watched that tape so many times I've got it memorized. It's inconceivable and incomprehensible tome that they did have such a casual attitude as police offers, until one of them got it. Even then, why didn/t the guy with the rifle just shoot the knifer???
I can only guess that familiarity breed contempt, and that maybe being that part of the world, a knife is such a common everyday object, that they didn't feel any danger until too late. After all, they were the macho cops with guns, surly some little guy with a mere knife can't b e that dangerous? Right?
I can only wonder how long this would have lasted if the knife wielder was in Baltimore, NYC, or even here in Monky county? May be a few seconds after the second "drop the knife" warning?
I remember some years ago, a demented lady tried to knife a Montgomery county officer when they resounded to a domestic call in Glenmont. She rushed the officer with a large kitchen knife and made it about two strides before being shot by both officers. And she being a female didn't seem to slow them down much.
I can think that a total lack of any training in some latin country makes for some dumb cops. That whole situation should have been over in seconds. They totally did not understand how fast a knife can work.
I can only guess that familiarity breed contempt, and that maybe being that part of the world, a knife is such a common everyday object, that they didn't feel any danger until too late. After all, they were the macho cops with guns, surly some little guy with a mere knife can't b e that dangerous? Right?
I can only wonder how long this would have lasted if the knife wielder was in Baltimore, NYC, or even here in Monky county? May be a few seconds after the second "drop the knife" warning?
I remember some years ago, a demented lady tried to knife a Montgomery county officer when they resounded to a domestic call in Glenmont. She rushed the officer with a large kitchen knife and made it about two strides before being shot by both officers. And she being a female didn't seem to slow them down much.
I can think that a total lack of any training in some latin country makes for some dumb cops. That whole situation should have been over in seconds. They totally did not understand how fast a knife can work.
SS396
Forum LEO whipping post
If more people saw this they would understand why we unload on someone running at us with a knife. Combine the speed of the attacker with the realitly that bullets don't pick you up and throw you back four feet like in the movies......well you see my point.
Even more funny is when they demand why the cop didn't just use a taser and bank his life on that 1-shot taser working flawlessly, and not missing....or how about shoot the non-compliant knife wielder in the leg....but only once.... with the magic bullet.
SS396
Forum LEO whipping post
You're right on. I mentioned in another thread that this is why a new Grand Jury pool will often go through some shoot or don't shoot training with the local police department. They typically leave the training with a new respect for how things really are.
They also circled the guy with their guns drawn so now they have to worry about crossfire. I guess poor/inadequate training and not taking a guy with a knife very seriously. They probably had very little intentions of shooting him which may be why they encircled him in the first place. Then when he started slashing, they just freaked out.
This is strange because it's usually pretty difficult to get a gun in South American countries as compared to the USA. So you'd think cops there would be more used to knives being the primary threat.
I just watched this video again: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75RTkGbiJpk
And at 5:43 you can see that he's holding the blade using the reverse grip, some call it the combat grip. In general, that can be construed as him having formal training. I mean, anyone can see it in a movie and hold it that way, but most don't because it's more awkward and lessens the reach. It also takes time to get good at slashing with this grip as it's done in a punching motion with very limited range. The pros of this grip is that you can commit to some serious rage stabbing at very close range...with a crapload of force and furious repitition. And it's much harder for someone to disarm your knife through wristlocks or wrist break attempts. This grip allows for a much tighter grip on the handle with the wrist in a strong position.
IMO, when you see someone holding it like this....then they probably mean business and is ready to knife fight. Not that someone holding a knife, Westside Story style and dancing around, can't be dangerous also.
And at 5:43 you can see that he's holding the blade using the reverse grip, some call it the combat grip. In general, that can be construed as him having formal training. I mean, anyone can see it in a movie and hold it that way, but most don't because it's more awkward and lessens the reach. It also takes time to get good at slashing with this grip as it's done in a punching motion with very limited range. The pros of this grip is that you can commit to some serious rage stabbing at very close range...with a crapload of force and furious repitition. And it's much harder for someone to disarm your knife through wristlocks or wrist break attempts. This grip allows for a much tighter grip on the handle with the wrist in a strong position.
IMO, when you see someone holding it like this....then they probably mean business and is ready to knife fight. Not that someone holding a knife, Westside Story style and dancing around, can't be dangerous also.
HOLY CRAP....I just saw this knife fight video and had to post the link. Just a warning that this is a not safe for work site where there are porn ads, real execution videos, etc. all over....
http://www.kaotic.com/42549_Fight-Videos-Two-Men-Decide-To-Have-A-Knife-Fight-In-The-Street.html
Adrenaline seems to keep you up unless you take direct stabs into organs. I guess you don't feel it until afterwards, especially if the knives are sharp.
http://www.kaotic.com/42549_Fight-Videos-Two-Men-Decide-To-Have-A-Knife-Fight-In-The-Street.html
Adrenaline seems to keep you up unless you take direct stabs into organs. I guess you don't feel it until afterwards, especially if the knives are sharp.
WeaponsCollector
EXTREME GUN OWNER
Someone recently uploaded to youtube some more footage from the original series.
Part 1 is the same as the "Don't underestimate the knife" video but parts 2 and 3 are just as informative.
Gun vs Knife the Reality Part 1
Gun vs Knife the Reality Part 2
Gun vs Knife the Reality Part 3
Part 1 is the same as the "Don't underestimate the knife" video but parts 2 and 3 are just as informative.
Gun vs Knife the Reality Part 1
Gun vs Knife the Reality Part 2
Gun vs Knife the Reality Part 3
MikeTF
Ultimate Member
Are these training videos still being used?
WeaponsCollector
EXTREME GUN OWNER
Good question, I don't know but I doubt it just because it's so old but it's still very important information and I think the "21 feet rule" will be around forever.
