M&M 10 WASR Issues

j2k4r · May 31, 2015

So... I have a Romanian (Cugir) WASR that has jamming issues (FTE and far more infrequently FTF). I have tried numerous types of ammunition (Tula Steel, MFR Steel, Hornady, Federal, Fiocchi, and Arsenal brass) and Yugo Mags, Bulgarian Mags, and both 20 and 30 round Tapcos... varying levels of success but still jams about 1 out of every 60-80 rounds - gets worse if it heats up. Bolt Carrier seems to scrape top round in the magazine...

Never had FTF with Tula or Hornady... rare with Arsenal.. common with Fiocchi...

Debating buying a new Romanian BCG... Is there anything else I should be checking for?

Thoughts?

friendlyhippo · Jun 2, 2015

First off, AKs don't have a "BCG". AR terminology needs to remain with ARs. It's either the bolt or carrier.

It sounds as though there's a few problems. For the FTF, the mag catch geometry may be off by a hair. How difficult is it to get a magazine to seat, and then to push the latch to release the magazine?

For the FTE, are you talking failure to extract, or to eject? If eject, is it stripping and loading a fresh round out of the magazine? If extract, is your extractor spring relatively new?

j2k4r · Jun 2, 2015

Thx - responses inline.

friendlyhippo said:
First off, AKs don't have a "BCG". AR terminology needs to remain with ARs. It's either the bolt or carrier.

It sounds as though there's a few problems. For the FTF, the mag catch geometry may be off by a hair. How difficult is it to get a magazine to seat, and then to push the latch to release the magazine? Worth noting that the bottom of the bolt head has signs of some scraping. Not alot, but is noticeable to the touch.

>Depends on the Mags - The Yugos are pretty easy, but the Tapcos and the one of the Bulgarians can be difficult to get out. If I cycle the bolt, the Bulgarian one is very hard to release.

For the FTE, are you talking failure to extract, or to eject? If eject, is it stripping and loading a fresh round out of the magazine? If extract, is your extractor spring relatively new?

>Extract... Case stuck in the chamber, bolt cycles and pushes the next round out of the magazine. If it extracts, it will eject without issue.

DaemonAssassin · Jun 2, 2015

It sounds like your extractor might be messed up somehow.

rob-cubed · Jun 2, 2015

If your cases are stuck in the chamber, the extractor/extractor spring is likely the culprit. Does it eject easily when hand cycling, without the recoil spring in place? Also make sure the chamber is clean, and free of burrs.

I wouldn't go swapping around bolts or carriers without a headspace gauge.

j2k4r · Jun 2, 2015

DaemonAssassin said:
It sounds like your extractor might be messed up somehow.

Here are some pics

j2k4r · Jun 2, 2015

rob-cubed said:
I wouldn't go swapping around a new bolt or bolt+carrier unless you have no-go gauges to confirm headspace.

FTE is typically a peened ejector or broken extractor/weak springs, not the bolt itself.

FTF is usually due to the magazine angle/height. If the magazine is sitting really high, it could also affect ejection if the bolt carrier drags on it.

One quick check would be if the mag has any forward/rear rocking when locked in. If it does, push it forward when shooting and see if that solves your issues. If so, you just need a taller selector/stop to fix it.

I have the go/no-go gauges - but really would like to avoid getting another bolt unless it cannot be avoided. I plan to go to the range Friday, Ill try that, but I don't recall alot of movement with the mags the last time.

Truthlesshero81 · Jun 3, 2015

Is it still under warranty at all?

j2k4r · Jun 3, 2015

Truthlesshero81 said:
Is it still under warranty at all?

I wish... I bought this piece of junk second hand in the mad pre-gun ban rush... really wish I could have gotten my hands on a better rifle.

Truthlesshero81 · Jun 3, 2015

I wouldn't call it junk. I've shot hundreds of rounds through mine with 0 issues ever. The M+M is considered to be one of the better WASR type AK's. I understand your frustration though, normally for me it's my AR's giving me hell lol.

ziptiespec · Jun 3, 2015

I have an M+M, no issues with it. You're welcome to test with my bolt or carrier. PM me if you're interested.

j2k4r · Jun 3, 2015

Truthlesshero81 said:
I wouldn't call it junk. I've shot hundreds of rounds through mine with 0 issues ever. The M+M is considered to be one of the better WASR type AK's. I understand your frustration though, normally for me it's my AR's giving me hell lol.

I know... but the amount of issues I've had with it... simply amazing. And my bargain basement AR has been through easily 4K rounds with 1 Fail to Feed which was a funky led-free 50 grain federal round with a weird shaped tip. Actually out of all my guns this one is the only one I have with any kind of issues.

j2k4r · Jun 3, 2015

ziptiespec said:
I have an M+M, no issues with it. You're welcome to test with my bolt or carrier. PM me if you're interested.

Thank you sir... I'm seriously leaning to just ordering a new bolt. I found one for a decent price - https://www.k-var.com/shop/AK-058BWS.html

Soul Rebel · Jun 5, 2015

first check your gas port - sounds like it could be under gassed causing the FTE issues. give it a good cleaning with a pipe cleaner and some solvent before you try changing out parts. if your gas port is good, check that your ejector is good. take out your firing pin and aggressively hand cycle a mag (follow all the core safety rules). If the rounds aren't flying across the room at the 1-3 o'clock then that is most likely your issue. AKs are not like ARs; you cant just replace the bolt. you'll have to headspace for the new bolt and that can be a lot of work.

friendlyhippo · Jun 8, 2015

Soul Rebel said:
give it a good cleaning with a pipe cleaner and some solvent before you try changing out parts.

I have a sneaking suspicion that firing the gun has a lot more cleansing force upon anything that may be in the gas port (temperature & velocity can be a seriously great scraping tool) than a pipe cleaner with a little solvent. in fact, I can guarantee it. If the gun fires and cycles, port cleanliness isn't an issue. Port SIZE could in fact be small. That can be remedied with the proper size drill bit....an item which I have in my basement.

if your gas port is good, check that your ejector is good. take out your firing pin and aggressively hand cycle a mag (follow all the core safety rules). If the rounds aren't flying across the room at the 1-3 o'clock then that is most likely your issue. AKs are not like ARs; you cant just replace the bolt. you'll have to headspace for the new bolt and that can be a lot of work.

You speak of possible ejector issues, then talk about bolt replacement. The ejector is not part of the bolt in an AK. It's spot-welded to the left side inside the receiver.

If you weren't implying the latter would solve the former, then it's just me not reading the statement properly, which has happened once or twice to me before.

j2k4r, if you could, perhaps take a photo of the inside of the (field-stripped) receiver, with maybe a penny or dime next to the ejector to show scale? May help myself and others in helping to diagnose without going hands-on.

aquaman · Jun 8, 2015

j2k4r said:
Thank you sir... I'm seriously leaning to just ordering a new bolt. I found one for a decent price - https://www.k-var.com/shop/AK-058BWS.html

Did you replace the extractor spring?

Soul Rebel · Jun 8, 2015

friendlyhippo said:
I have a sneaking suspicion that firing the gun has a lot more cleansing force upon anything that may be in the gas port (temperature & velocity can be a seriously great scraping tool) than a pipe cleaner with a little solvent. in fact, I can guarantee it. If the gun fires and cycles, port cleanliness isn't an issue. Port SIZE could in fact be small. That can be remedied with the proper size drill bit....an item which I have in my basement.

You speak of possible ejector issues, then talk about bolt replacement. The ejector is not part of the bolt in an AK. It's spot-welded to the left side inside the receiver.

If you weren't implying the latter would solve the former, then it's just me not reading the statement properly, which has happened once or twice to me before.

j2k4r, if you could, perhaps take a photo of the inside of the (field-stripped) receiver, with maybe a penny or dime next to the ejector to show scale? May help myself and others in helping to diagnose without going hands-on.

Good call about the gas port size. Using a properly sized drill bit is a better recommendation than the pipe cleaner. But you may be surprised by the crud that can build up in a gas port. Read the thread, The OP mentioned replacing the bolt as a possible solution to his ejection issues.

friendlyhippo · Jun 9, 2015

Soul Rebel said:
Good call about the gas port size. Using a properly sized drill bit is a better recommendation than the pipe cleaner. But you may be surprised by the crud that can build up in a gas port. Read the thread, The OP mentioned replacing the bolt as a possible solution to his ejection issues.

I did read the thread....to include the numerous posts from other people mentioning how bolt replacement was not only jumping the gun, but possibly would lead to other problems, and unless other less-drastic measures don't solve his issue, unnecessary. You may have missed those posts, but I promise you that they are in fact there. Your own advice may be best heeded right about now.

boatrental · Jun 15, 2015

WASR 10

I purchased a WASR 10 in "inoperable" condition and was able to get it to feed and eject with a bit of work. These guns were built originally for a single stack, 10 round mag and then modified to accept a double stack mag. On mine I ended up milling the mag rails so that the mag would center in the receiver and lowered the mag catch so the bullets would be at a better angle. Also milled in a feed ramp in the barrel so the nose of the bullets would not jam in that spot. It will shoot al Russian ammo as it designed to do.

j2k4r · Sep 3, 2015

Resurrecting this dead thread... I'm back to looking at the M+M again... I know they have a very good rep, I just have had problems with this one. I have 3 AR's, including one with over 4K rounds of all kinds through it and almost literally no issues ever... and it's a franken AR built with cheap parts.

Truthlesshero81 said:
I wouldn't call it junk. I've shot hundreds of rounds through mine with 0 issues ever. The M+M is considered to be one of the better WASR type AK's. I understand your frustration though, normally for me it's my AR's giving me hell lol.

M&M 10 WASR Issues

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