Shelling of Mainila- Prelude to Talvisota

-----------------------------------------2014 Anniversary Bump (75th Anniversary) ---------------------------------------

Its funny looking back at my collection when I first started putting this together. My collection has come light years since these beginning photos, I almost feel like I need to go back and retake them. But who am I kidding. I'll never get around to doing that!!! I hope you enjoy everyone's photos contained within and maybe learn something about a little country of VERY determined people


75 yrs ago today, the Soviets fired artillery upon one of their own cities and blamed Finland.

Why?? Because just as they had "annexed" the other small Baltic states and their half of Poland (per the Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact), they wanted to re-take Finland.

Problem was they had signed a non-aggression treaty with Finland and couldn't declare war without a valid reason. They needed a casus belli from the League of Nations - meaning justification for war. What better way than to shell one of their own cities and then frame Finland.
This would lead to the declaration of war and the bombing of Helsinki four days later, marking the start of the Winter War or "Talvisota" in Finnish.

The Winter War was the ultimate David vs Goliath confrontation as the Finns had no tanks or heavy artillery, 114 combat aircraft, and only 250K rifles for a 337K man army.......

The Winter War is where legendary warriors such as Mannerheim and Simo Häyhä were born. I plan throw up some occasional snipets on this thread as hi-lights in the war progress. They aren't going to be your standard Wikipedia timeline hi-lights either - you guys are more than capable of finding those, if interested

I hope you guys will find this little historical prelude to WW2 interesting. As always, feel free to comment and make corrections as needed.
I'm putting this in the C&R area as I plan to throw in some pictures of Finnish and Soviet firearms as the timeline progresses.

Excellent! I, for one, eagerly anticipate the coming installments. I'd be delighted to learn more.

I'd never heard about Talvisota until I read Solzhenitsyn, who describes it vividly in The Gulag Archipelago. Added the Finns to my panoply of warrior heroes, for sure!

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I have been Re-reading "Rifles of the White Death" (VALKOISEN KUOLEMAN KIVAARIT) by Doug Bowser. What a great source of firearm history.

The old superstition among sailors was that Finns were Warlocks.

...By common repute the Finns were warlocks of distinguished eminence. Magic was native to them, wizardry was their birthright, sorcery their peculiar province. Only the Lapps, their blood-brothers, excelled them in the black arts. A competent Finnish practitioner could always raise the wind. He tied three knots in a string. When he untied one, a strong breeze blew. When he untied the second, there was a gale. If he dared unloose the third, trees crashed before the tempest and roofs sailed through the air. They had, of course, many parlor tricks not so devastating, charms and incantations to cure disease, for example, or to make the cattle prosper, or to prevent rain in harvest time...
http://www.genealogia.fi/emi/art/article183e.htm

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I know this is from the 2nd part, the Continuation War, but here is my SVT-40. Didn't go so well for the Ruskies.

Sweet! I've been trying to win a Finn captured SVT40 off of Gunbroker for a few months now. I definitely need one for the collection. Thanks for posting!

metalman3006 said:

I know this is from the 2nd part, the Continuation War, but here is my SVT-40. Didn't go so well for the Ruskies.

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h2u said:

Sweet! I've been trying to win a Finn captured SVT40 off of Gunbroker for a few months now. I definitely need one for the collection. Thanks for posting!

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It has been said that the only captured about 15,000 of them and made only about 10,000 out of that to put back in action. Then you minus out the ones lost by the Finns in action or due to ware and then how many actually made it over to the States, there can't be that many out there.

****This info was pulled from several different sources****

On Nov 30, 1939 -
The Soviets started an overwhelming assault at numerous points along the 900 mile Soviet/Finnish border. They struck with bombers, artillery, tanks, and infantry. The guards at the frontier posts-many whom had never seen a tank-were killed, captured or dispersed.

Four Soviet armies hurled 16 of 19 available divisions, supported by 1,700 tanks and strong artillery against nine smaller divisions with obsolescent artillery and negligible armor-all the Finns had.

In parts of the northern area, some of the battles were so heated on Nov 30th, the Soviet infantry was running out of ammo...
Finnish snipers, already nicknamed "cuckoos" by the Soviets, were wreaking havoc behind enemy lines by the end of the first day of fighting.

Soviet tanks- these were the cause of so many defeats and rampant demoralization to the Finnish soldier armed with a rifle.....and literally nothing else. The Finns only had 100 Bofors anti-tank rifles-period. These proved too heavy and cumbersome for the mobile warfare on the frontier. They needed to improvise....

The result was a weapon that may have seen it's first use in the recent Spanish Civil War. The petrol bomb.
More popularly known by the name the Finnish gave it---the "Molotov Cocktail"

---------Fun info on the Molotov Cocktail-----------
During the Winter War, the Soviet air force made extensive use of incendiaries and cluster bombs against Finnish troops and fortifications. When Soviet People's Commissar for Foreign Affairs Vyacheslav Molotov claimed in radio broadcasts that the Soviet Union was not dropping bombs but rather delivering food to the starving Finns, the Finns started to call the air bombs "Molotov bread baskets". Soon the Finns responded by attacking advancing tanks with "Molotov cocktails" which were "a drink to go with the food".
At first, the term was used to describe only the burning mixture itself, but in practical use the term was soon applied to the combination of both the bottle and its contents.

The Finns perfected the design and tactical use of the petrol bomb. The fuel for the Molotov cocktail was refined to a slightly sticky mixture of gasoline, kerosene, tar, and potassium chloride. Further refinements included the attachment of wind-proof matches or a phial of chemicals that would ignite on breakage thereby removing the need to pre-ignite the bottle and leaving the bottle about one-third empty was found to make breaking more likely. As the cooling system on a Soviet tank was almost invariably placed where direct fire wouldn't hit them, the target of choice was the rear deck of a tank; the burning contents of the bottle would pour through the large cooling grills and ignite fuel, hydraulic fluids and ammunition.

A British and a War Office report dated June 1940 noted that:

The Finns' policy was to allow the Russian tanks to penetrate their defences, even inducing them to do so by 'canalising' them through gaps and concentrating their small arms fire on the infantry following them. The tanks that penetrated were taken on by gun fire in the open and by small parties of men armed with explosive charges and petrol bombs in the forests and villages... The essence of the policy was the separation of the AFVs from the infantry, as once on their own the tank has many blind spots and once brought to a stop can be disposed of at leisure.

Utilizing four-man teams, the Finns would jam the tracks of enemy tanks with a log to stop it then use Molotov Cocktails to detonate its fuel tank. Over 2,000 Soviet tanks were destroyed using this method.
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I'll try to keep these little nuggets of info short and concise-might be hard as I enjoy the subject

As I promised, I'm going to insert some pictures of weapon types that were in service during the Winter War. I'm going to do it in a couple of installments.
The first group is going to be some models the Finnish Army had in it's inventory at the start of the Winter War.
From top to bottom:
1893 Chatellerault M91 - Finnish property marked (SA stamped)
1899 Izhevsk Dragoon with Finn leather sling - Finnish property marked
1937 Tula M91/30 - Finnish property marked (SA, D, and 41 stamped)---popular thinking has the "41" stamp as a firearm captured during the Winter War. I thought it was a cool 91/30 variation to show.
1928 M27 ski-trooper with early M27 bayonet and scabbard

Awesome thread is awesome.

Thanks! If anyone sees an error or omission, please feel free to correct me.

I've pulled info from several sources and kind of intermingled them. I could bore everyone to death with the personnel backgrounds and how the countries found themselves at this juncture, but I figured by hitting some highlights and hopefully interesting anecdotes, anyone interested can find many pieces of information on the subject.

If you have a Winter War era rifle and want to post pics-go for it! Just remember-
-no M39's (only 10 produced by the day the Winter War started. A decision was made to stop assembly of those and concentrate on emergency production of the M91's)

-no Finnish barreled 91/30's (not made until '43)

-no M44's for obvious reasons.

This is very interesting stuff. I look forward to updates.

This thread is fantastic. Learning a lot about a subject I knew very little of. Bravo!

h2u, I have nothing of value to contribute, but wanted to thank you for a very interesting read.

h2u said:

Thanks! If anyone sees an error or omission, please feel free to correct me.

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There aren't any feet in your picture.

K31 said:

There aren't any feet in your picture.

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Nor will there ever be!!!!! The closest you're gonna get from me is a toe splice in one of the stocks....

Here's my Finnish M28-30 Civil Guard Rifle (which has appeared here before). I've always assumed it must have seen action in those desperate months. Not counting the 10 M39s in existence when the war broke out, these M28-30s represented the highest development of the Mosin rifle at the time. I think these were the best Mosins the Finns had.

My paternal Grandfather was Finnish. I have a Finnish last name and wrote a paper in college about the Winter War. A fascinating lead up to the event was the brief Finnish Civil War and the "White" versus "Red" Finnish armies. Had the Socialists won that conflict, it is likely that Finland would have rapidly capitulated and been subsumed by the Soviet Union entirely, akin to the Baltic States. The Cold War map of Europe would have been that much different, with Sweden directly bordering the USSR, and NATO member Norway having a strip of land in direct contact with the USSR. Kind of interesting, the might-have-been game.

For techies, the glorious history of the Brewster Buffalo (a plane the USAAF more or less forgot about) and its service history versus the USSR is interesting. An obsolete and toothless plane even its heyday, the Finnish Air Force flew these until the airframes rotted beneath the pilot.

TripleChris said:

My paternal Grandfather was Finnish. I have a Finnish last name and wrote a paper in college about the Winter War. A fascinating lead up to the event was the brief Finnish Civil War and the "White" versus "Red" Finnish armies. Had the Socialists won that conflict, it is likely that Finland would have rapidly capitulated and been subsumed by the Soviet Union entirely, akin to the Baltic States. The Cold War map of Europe would have been that much different, with Sweden directly bordering the USSR, and NATO member Norway having a strip of land in direct contact with the USSR. Kind of interesting, the might-have-been game.

For techies, the glorious history of the Brewster Buffalo (a plane the USAAF more or less forgot about) and its service history versus the USSR is interesting. An obsolete and toothless plane even its heyday, the Finnish Air Force flew these until the airframes rotted beneath the pilot.

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This is awesome! I'm glad to have someone checking out my info and making sure it's at least semi-correct
I totally could bore everyone with all the drama and events leading up to the Winter War-going all the way back to the Bolshevik Revolution (where Finland declared it's independence from Russia while they were busy fighting a Civil War), but I'm trying to keep it to the hi-lights and fun stuff.

TripleChris-Please, please, please feel free to add anything you feel needs it!!

h2u said:

This is awesome! I'm glad to have someone checking out my info and making sure it's at least semi-correct
I totally could bore everyone with all the drama and events leading up to the Winter War-going all the way back to the Bolshevik Revolution (where Finland declared it's independence from Russia while they were busy fighting a Civil War), but I'm trying to keep it to the hi-lights and fun stuff.

TripleChris-Please, please, please feel free to add anything you feel needs it!!

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A bizarre tidbit... I plucked this off Wikipedia, but first a little backstory about Marshal C.G.E Mannerheim.

Mannerheim is the equivalent of Finland's George Washington, Robert E. Lee, and Dwight Eisenhower rolled into one. He was not only Finland's military leader during its Civil War AND its foray into WW2, but its "regent" in 1918 and its President again in the 40s. Phew. He even did what Washington did and rebuke those who wanted him to be King, preferring a democratic system of government. Anyway....

Finland was at best an erstwhile ally of Nazi Germany. Finland never forgot the cold reception the Germans gave them when they asked someone, anyone, for assistance in 1939. Only after their success against the Red Army did the Nazis consider the Finns a valuable "ally", which is misleading, as Finland refused to declare war on the Western Powers. Their Anglophile president wouldn't think of it, and besides, most of the loaned, borrowed, and donated arms and materiel they used to defeat the Soviets (then allied with Germany in its Molotov/Ribbentrop Axis of Extra Evil) was US and British in origin, if not pre-WWI Imperial Russian stock. Understandably, a visit from the widely loathed Hitler to gladhandle their beloved President would not sit well with the Finns....

Adolf Hitler decided to visit Finland on 4 June 1942, ostensibly to congratulate Mannerheim on his 75th birthday. But Mannerheim did not want to meet him in his headquarters in Mikkeli or in Helsinki, as it would have seemed like an official state visit. The meeting took place near Imatra, in south-eastern Finland, and was arranged in secrecy.

From Immola Airfield, Hitler, accompanied by President Ryti, was driven to the place where Mannerheim was waiting at a railway siding. After a speech from Hitler, and following a birthday meal and negotiations between him and Mannerheim, Hitler returned to Germany. President Ryti and other high-ranking Finns and Germans were also present. Hitler spent about five hours in Finland. Hitler reportedly intended to ask the Finns to step up military operations against the Soviets, but he apparently made no specific demands.

During the visit, an engineer of the Finnish broadcasting company YLE, Thor Damen, succeeded in recording the first 11 minutes of Hitler's and Mannerheim's private conversation. This had to be done secretly, as Hitler never allowed others to record him off-guard. Damen was given the assignment to record the official birthday speeches and Mannerheim's responses and following those orders added microphones to certain railway cars. Unfortunately, Mannerheim and his guests chose to go to a car that didn't have a microphone in it. Damen acted quickly, pushing a microphone through one of the car windows to a netshelf just above were Hitler and Mannerheim were sitting. After 11 minutes of Hitler's and Mannerheim's private conversation, Hitler's SS bodyguards spotted the cords coming out of the window and realized that the Finnish engineer was recording the conversation. They gestured to him to stop recording immediately, and he complied. The SS bodyguards demanded that the tape be immediately destroyed, but YLE was allowed to keep the reel, after promising to keep it in a sealed container. It was given to the head of the state censors' office Kustaa Vilkuna and in 1957 returned to YLE. It was made available to the public a few years later. It is the only known recording of Hitler speaking in an unofficial tone.

There is an unsubstantiated story that during his meeting with Hitler, Mannerheim lit a cigar. Mannerheim supposed that Hitler would ask Finland for help against the Soviet Union, which Mannerheim was unwilling to give. When Mannerheim lit up, all in attendance gasped, for Hitler's aversion to smoking was well known. Yet Hitler continued the conversation calmly, with no comment. In this way, Mannerheim could judge if Hitler was speaking from a position of strength or weakness. He was able to refuse Hitler, knowing that Hitler was in a weak position, and could not dictate to him.

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Kind of a neat scenario. Hitler was not used to being treated like that, certainly by 1942 it had been years since someone would openly disrespect the absolute tyrant of the Third Reich. The Finns, never a people to put on airs, could care less about offending the man. Sisu man. Cojones. Brass balls.