Back to court we go....
Stripped lowers legal?
- Thread starter YFallston
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- Feb 4, 2013
- 28,175
More likely they will hold on to this position until Frosh becomes AG and stops lowers and HBARs from being sold. 
SRD
R.I.P.
The few I buy under their direction from the IPs here,will be sold back to MSP at a significant profit.
gmhowell
Not Banned Yet
Until the ATF shows up. Ask Ares Armor how that goes.
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jmike1487
Ultimate Member
More likely they will hold on to this position until Frosh becomes AG and stops lowers and HBARs from being sold.
And ar-10's
- Feb 4, 2013
- 28,175
AR-10 will be harder for him to ban without a fight.
Personally I think the "imitations and copies" fully supports any HBAR AR.
Personally I think the "imitations and copies" fully supports any HBAR AR.
Rob Jones
Member
Just ordered two having them shipped to All Pawn. Thanks.
moojersey
Sic Semper Tyrannis
Hopalong
Man of Many Nicknames
According to the letter of the law, the MSP has never had a leg to stand on for treating AR lowers as regulated firearms.More likely they will hold on to this position until Frosh becomes AG and stops lowers and HBARs from being sold.
1. AR lowers are not a handgun.
2. AR lowers are not a regulated long gun.
3. AR lowers are a firearm of type "other", which is not regulated.
We let this go on for years because we were fighting bigger battles, and because we could still buy them. Now that FSA2013 is a reality, and the MSP has changed course on this, I see an opportunity for another lawsuit.
Frosh becoming AG doesn't change any of this, but I'd bet even money that a bill specifically adding AR lowers to the regulated firearms list comes up.
Lennyo3034
Active Member
- Feb 28, 2011
- 440
Just a question with an "HBAR" transferred lower. If I wanted to build it into a non .223/5.56 caliber, I assume I still have to go HBAR contour on it? I was looking at 6.5 Grendel and while most barrels of that caliber are HBAR anyways, JP makes one that's the exception.
fabsroman
Ultimate Member
I don't think any of the JP Rifles barrels are HBAR. They are all .650 before the gas block and I believe .750 after the gas block. I believe this is so they can accommodate the JP Rifles cooling fins should you desire them.
There is some argument that any AR-15 in a cartridge other than .223 is not a copy of the Colt AR-15 because the parts are not interchangeable with the Colt AR-15. Question in my mind would be whether the State is still taking the position that ALL Bushmaster rifles are banned. If that is the case and Bushmaster makes something in 6.5 Grendel, .300 AAC Blackout, or what have you, then you might run into the copy issue.
Personally, I am going to go HBAR or SBR on all my post 10/1/2013 purchases regardless of cartridge and reserve the JP Rifles barrels for my pre 10/1/2013 lowers.
OrbitalEllipses
Ultimate Member
So who's going to take it to court?
- Feb 4, 2013
- 28,175
a) I am saying that because they have been doing it this way for years, they just kept on doing it the same way. You will have a hard time convincing them otherwise.
b) Frosh will likely claim that lowers are banned firearms, and if the AG issues such an opinion, MSP will follow it. And until someone takes it court, and wins, no more lowers.
Luckily Frosh as AG cannot introduce bills to the legislature. But he can still make a LOT of trouble. Look at PA.
- Feb 4, 2013
- 28,175
You know that JP Rifles states on their webpage that their uppers cannot be shipped to various states, including MD?
Which is one reason why I ordered a White Oak upper.
Hopalong
Man of Many Nicknames
You are correct, and I see Frosh issuing that very opinion having that very impact as soon as he takes office. This is the short-term picture.
As much as Frosh would like it, an AG's opinion cannot change the text of the law, and, as long as the law remains as-written, I think the issue is ripe for a lawsuit to force the correct interpretation.
fabsroman
Ultimate Member
Best way to take it to Court would be for a Declaratory Judgment on a breached contract between an FFL and a customer wherein the FFL is alleging that the contract is void because it is a crime. The big problem would be the attorneys fees. However, this actually avoids criminal prosecution for the transfer of the lower AND it would only allow the AG to file an Amicus Curiae (friend of the court) brief when the matter is appealed.
TapRackBang
Cheaper Than Diamonds
How much in attorney fees? What ballpark? $10k? $100k? $1M?
fabsroman
Ultimate Member
Depends on the law firm one picks and how far the matter goes in the appeals process, if it is appealed whatsoever. Only reason to appeal it as far as possible is to prevent the AG from going after somebody criminally and then appealing the previous decision of the trial court.
I doubt attorneys fees would be too outrageous for a Declaratory Judgment action because there would be no discovery (i.e., all the facts are known). Only question would be a question regarding the interpretation of the law, and the standard for statutory interpretation is laid out quite well already in the case law. With that said, in the Chow case, which was a criminal prosecution case, it had to go all the way to the Court of Appeals to determine what the definition of "transfer" is, and the Court of Appeals overturned the Court of Special Appeals.
TapRackBang
Cheaper Than Diamonds
People have different definitions of "outrageous". I know it's hard to speculate, but you are in a better position to get the ballpark right, at least by a factor of 10 than I am.
So again, what ballpark? $10k? $100k? $1M? Pick one.
So again, what ballpark? $10k? $100k? $1M? Pick one.
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