Thumb Safeties?

Keystone70 · Feb 24, 2015

HawaiiMark said:
I am relatively new to handguns and I own a 1911 so I have gotten used to the safety. It seems weird to have a gun without a safety. That said, I want to get a S&W M&P9c and I am trying to decide on the thumb safety issue.

That would be a personal decision. You will get two different answers from others. You need to decide what you feel is most comfortable and effective. I don't want one on my 9c because if I could carry it, I don't want to have to worry about anything but shooting if that sad day ever arises.

My 1911 is bigger and heavier and lot more expensive; so, I don't think I will be carrying it any time soon. I have used it in competition a few times and have not had a problem with the safety. It's just one more action in the drawing process I would rather not deal with in a real situation.

woodstock · Feb 24, 2015

shux here's my cent-n-a-half.

military and police have a motto, safety's kill. how so? it became apparent that when under pressure and split second decisions have to be made, some would always forget the safety and in the gunfight, cops wound up shot, some killed. that being said, the 1911 was the trued and tested pistol for military because of the many other reliable things you can do with them (related to maintenance and such)--plus lest we ferget, the 1911 also has a grip safety, because some would forget to engage the thumb safety. striker fired, specifically GLOCK seemed to answer the call of duty for many LEO and now, the military.

my revolvers don't have safety's. hours upon hours of gun handling safety is paramount when you have handguns. whether you get a gun with a safety or not is up to personal preference and how you intend to apply that gun to your purposes. i teach with the browning buck mark camper, they have a safety, that being said, gun HANDLING safety is the only way to ensure gun safety. safety's can fail, but with the required gun HANDLING safety, to responsibly own and possess a gun, should never be ignored, neglected or thought of as an elective.

zoostation · Feb 24, 2015

I prefer having and using a safety. But that's just me. As others have said, without proper firearms discipline a safety isn't going to make much of a difference in keeping people safe.

jimbobborg · Feb 24, 2015

montoya32 said:
So you're saying a 5 step process is not anymore complicated than a 4 step process?

It's an automatic draw-flip-aim-shoot. I've done it enough times it's part of my draw for pistols. Most of the time I don't realize I've done it when shooting.

woodstock said:
shux here's my cent-n-a-half.

military and police have a motto, safety's kill. how so? it became apparent that when under pressure and split second decisions have to be made, some would always forget the safety and in the gunfight, cops wound up shot, some killed.

Again, it's a training issue. Most people in this position are not shooters nor do they have a firearms background. They don't get training as it's not paid for by their employers or it's done one time and never brought up again.

SRD · Feb 24, 2015

My biased $.02,all of my semis have them (and hammers) so I'm used to them and don't mind having them.Except for what I hunt with,my revolvers are SA/DA so not needed or desired.

jimbobborg · Feb 24, 2015

zoostation said:
I prefer having and using a safety. But that's just me. As others have said, without proper firearms discipline a safety isn't going to make much of a difference in keeping people safe.

The lady who was shot and killed by her toddler when said toddler pulled her concealed carry pistol would probably have appreciated having that safety when her kid pulled the trigger. You can't guarantee you will have control over your carry pistol 100% of the time. Those extra seconds where the person holder your pistol wondering why the gun didn't go off gives you an opportunity to get the gun back.

photoracer · Feb 24, 2015

Its 6 of 1 or a half dozen of another situation. One reason why 1911/2011 guns have to engage the thumb safety in matches is because in earlier days of competition people used to disable the grip safety internally.
Either way you should never use a holster that does not cover the trigger so as to make it inaccessable until drawn. That is usually a requirement in most competition and it should be in life also. Eliminates the main cause of self inflicted wounds. I have used every type of firearm in competition and used improperly every one can come back to bite you if you don't pay attention.

Keystone70 · Feb 24, 2015

jimbobborg said:
The lady who was shot and killed by her toddler when said toddler pulled her concealed carry pistol would probably have appreciated having that safety when her kid pulled the trigger. You can't guarantee you will have control over your carry pistol 100% of the time. Those extra seconds where the person holder your pistol wondering why the gun didn't go off gives you an opportunity to get the gun back.

I hear what you are saying. However, I don't believe she should have left the gun in the cart. I believe the safest place for a handgun is in a safe or on your person. You remove it from those safe positions and you may be subject undesired consequences. Not to belittle the plight of this women. We hear it all the time that carrying a firearm is a huge responsibility. The child could have dislodged the safety while pulling the gun out of the purse as well. Just not a good plan.

alucard0822 · Feb 24, 2015

It's a different and older mode of operation, and an added step to train and practice with, but could be worth it for a faster/lighter trigger, and a shooting style that makes use of it, worthless if it's redundant on top of a DAO design. I prefer pre-cock DAO aka "safe action", less shifting of grip on the draw, no safety to inadvertently go on or off, and no safety in the way of my thumbs forward grip. There is no difference in the inherent "safety" between the 2 modes given good pistols in good shape IMO. Plenty of people have put holes in their foot swearing "the safety was on", and somehow makes it OK to leave their finger on the trigger, others draw and can't disengage the safety under the stress of a violent crime, others snag a DAO trigger with an unsafe reholster, leave their pistol unsecured around kids, or haven't learned retention techniques. None of those issues really have anything to do with having or lacking a thumb safety, and everything to do with inept or negligent gun owners.

Blaster229 · Feb 25, 2015

I should find my previous posts and just copy n paste

I have a 1911 and that will never change. Gotta have it. No big deal.
My other pistols I would carry ON me do not have them since they will be in a holster on my hip.
I have a Shield with the safety. Wearing on my hip, safety is OFF.
I also like to tote it around with me casually not wearing it, but in a dedicated "sterile" pocket inside my back pack for when I am usually just taking it to sit in Starbucks for a couple hours. I have the safety on. It serves it's purpose.

I wouldn't carry a pistol with a safety.

Tactics · Feb 25, 2015

In competition if it has a safety or decocker you must use it.

I prefer no "safety" but I'm also a Glock Fanboy

Montoya I liked your line about The simplicity of Polymer Pistols being relaxing. I couldn't agree more. I've shot and own a ton of fancy stuff but the simplicity of a DAO polymer gun (without a safety) calls to me.

joppaj · Feb 25, 2015

I don't like thumb safeties and would require substantial retraining to trust a handgun with one in a defensive situation. I have seen negligent discharges with GLOCKS. Every damn one would have been prevented if the shooter had kept his finger off the trigger.

montoya32 · Feb 25, 2015

jimbobborg said:
The lady who was shot and killed by her toddler when said toddler pulled her concealed carry pistol would probably have appreciated having that safety when her kid pulled the trigger. You can't guarantee you will have control over your carry pistol 100% of the time. Those extra seconds where the person holder your pistol wondering why the gun didn't go off gives you an opportunity to get the gun back.

Her safety was defective. She should have never had the gun in reach of the toddler.

DC-W · Feb 25, 2015

Keep the booger hook off of and away from the bang switch :thumbsup:

swinokur · Feb 25, 2015

Name Taken said:
Thumb safety...a useless tool to make a person feel safer.

There is NOTHING a thumb safety is going to do that proper gun safety won't.

There are plenty of articles where thumb safety guns have had ND's.

If you keep your finger off the trigger it's not an issue.

^^^^

THIS

The safety is your brain.

joppaj · Feb 25, 2015

jimbobborg said:
You can't guarantee you will have control over your carry pistol 100% of the time.

I politely disagree. My gun goes from my safe to my hip and then back to my safe. That's it, that's the only place my carry gun goes. Unless I'm unconscious, I have 100% control at all times of my carry gun.

Minuteman · Feb 25, 2015

Blaster229 said:
I should find my previous posts and just copy n paste

I have a 1911 and that will never change. Gotta have it. No big deal.
My other pistols I would carry ON me do not have them since they will be in a holster on my hip.
I have a Shield with the safety. Wearing on my hip, safety is OFF.
I also like to tote it around with me casually not wearing it, but in a dedicated "sterile" pocket inside my back pack for when I am usually just taking it to sit in Starbucks for a couple hours. I have the safety on. It serves it's purpose.

I wouldn't carry a pistol with a safety.

This.

Blaster229 · Feb 25, 2015

jimbobborg said:
You can't guarantee you will have control over your carry pistol 100% of the time. Those extra seconds where the person holder your pistol wondering why the gun didn't go off gives you an opportunity to get the gun back.

You have to give a few examples of not having carry control of your pistol 100% of the time. A safety is not part of weapon retention.
A confusing delay is not even close to an ancillary use/purpose of a safety on a pistol.

501st · Feb 25, 2015

http://pistol-training.com/archives/8911

jimbobborg · Feb 25, 2015

Blaster229 said:
You have to give a few examples of not having carry control of your pistol 100% of the time. A safety is not part of weapon retention.
A confusing delay is not even close to an ancillary use/purpose of a safety on a pistol.

Massad Ayoob wrote an article about safeties and how they worked to the betterment of cops who had their weapons taken from them during altercations with suspects. I can't look them up here as 90% of the gun sites are blocked.

Thumb Safeties?

The #1 community for Gun Owners of the Northeast

Member Benefits:

MSI Executive Member

Banned

, ,

Oddball caliber fan

R.I.P.

Oddball caliber fan

Competition Shooter

MSI Executive Member

For great Justice

God loves you, I don't.

Ultimate Member

Sheepdog

Ultimate Member

Ultimate Member

In a State of Bliss

Sheepdog

Member

God loves you, I don't.

Ultimate Member

Oddball caliber fan

Users who are viewing this thread

Log in

Forum statistics