80% lowers available on Amazon??

Capt Skup · Jan 3, 2014

Just got done ordering some parts for my AR builds on Amazon, and something came up I was very surprised to see. 80% lowers from Palmetto for $79.99. It was not the price that surprised me but that they were being sold on AMazon at all. I have read recently that Amazon is taking heat for selling firearm components, mostly AR build parts. I have bought lower parts kits, stocks, forearms, sites, etc from them recently. Nice to see the lowers offered, too. May have to get a few before something changes.

ground chuck · Apr 15, 2014

Can any upper be put on a lower that has been cut from a 80% lower? I am interested in possibly doing a build but want to mske sure I do it right and legal.

Echo · Apr 15, 2014

They were selling them as "paperweights" to get around Amazons firearm ban. They really emphasized that it was not a complete firearm and only functions as a paperweight in the descriptions. Made no mention of being able to complete it as a 100% lower receiver.

budman93 · Apr 15, 2014

ground chuck said:
Can any upper be put on a lower that has been cut from a 80% lower? I am interested in possibly doing a build but want to mske sure I do it right and legal.

If it was completed before October first then yes assuming it doesn't violate NFA regs. Completing one now would be manufacturing a banned firearm.

RoboRay · Apr 16, 2014

If you finish it out of state and put an HBAR upper on it before bringing it back into Maryland, you are legal. Just never put it in a banned configuration while in MD.

Doctor_M · Apr 16, 2014

Just my $0.02...

RoboRay · Apr 16, 2014

1 - Maryland's ban on manufacturing does not apply to places beyond the state's borders.
2 - Acquiring, importing and possessing HBAR AR15s is legal in Maryland.

If you can buy it outside MD and bring it in, you can build it outside MD and bring it in, so long as where you are building it allows manufacturing. There's nothing gray or sketchy about that. You just need the HBAR upper already installed when you cross the state line.

budman93 · Apr 16, 2014

RoboRay said:
1 - Maryland's ban on manufacturing does not apply to places beyond the state's borders.
2 - Acquiring, importing and possessing HBAR AR15s is legal in Maryland.

If you can buy it outside MD and bring it in, you can build it outside MD and bring it in, so long as where you are building it allows manufacturing. There's nothing gray or sketchy about that. You just need the HBAR upper already installed when you cross the state line.

I would not recommend attempting that. It is a good way to get the MSP very interested in you. Just buy a complete hbar in MD.

armed ferret · Apr 16, 2014

budman93 said:
I would not recommend attempting that. It is a good way to get the MSP very interested in you. Just buy a complete hbar in MD.

Im doing it with 2 stripped lowers in iowa in june. Theres nothing illegal about it whatsoever.

RoboRay · Apr 16, 2014

budman93 said:
I would not recommend attempting that. It is a good way to get the MSP very interested in you.

For what, exactly?

budman93 said:
Just buy a complete hbar in MD.

If you are in another state and see an HBAR you like, would you buy it "cash and carry" and bring it back to Maryland? Why not? Maryland law does not prohibit HBAR AR15s from being brought in.

Other state's laws allow AR15 lowers to be manufactured and assembled into AR15s. If you build an HBAR there, Maryland law does not prohibit you from bringing it in to the state.

The only issue with 80% lowers and Maryland law is the period of time between when you finish the lower (making it a banned Assault Long Gun in MSP's interpretation) and install the HBAR upper (making it not banned). So, that period of time needs to occur outside the jurisdiction of Maryland law.

budman93 · Apr 16, 2014

armed ferret said:
Im doing it with 2 stripped lowers in iowa in june. Theres nothing illegal about it whatsoever.

Good for you, but I'm not going to risk it.

aquaman · Apr 16, 2014

budman93 said:
Good for you, but I'm not going to risk it.

would you tell on yourself?

armed ferret · Apr 16, 2014

budman93 said:
Good for you, but I'm not going to risk it.

Perhaps you'd care to expound upon your reasons for telling people not to do it, instead of just espousing hollow insinuations.

DEX · Apr 16, 2014

RoboRay said:
For what, exactly?
The only issue with 80% lowers and Maryland law is the period of time between when you finish the lower (making it a banned Assault Long Gun in MSP's interpretation) and install the HBAR upper (making it not banned). So, that period of time needs to occur outside the jurisdiction of Maryland law.

But isn't that where the gray area lies here? If you take off the upper on an HBAR lower to clean it, have you just made an illegal firearm? If it's the lower being stamped HBAR, couldn't you just put HBAR on your 80% along with your personalized serial for record keeping sake? We won't know the answers to any of these gray area questions until someone has to argue them in court, and personally I know I wouldn't want to be a test case...

RoboRay · Apr 16, 2014

DEX said:
But isn't that where the gray area lies here? If you take off the upper on an HBAR lower to clean it, have you just made an illegal firearm? If it's the lower being stamped HBAR, couldn't you just put HBAR on your 80% along with your personalized serial for record keeping sake? We won't know the answers to any of these gray area questions until someone has to argue them in court, and personally I know I wouldn't want to be a test case...

If that's your concern, it has nothing to do with 80% lowers at all... just buying an HBAR, any HBAR (since none of them have lowers stamped HBAR to the best of my knowledge, not even the named-legal Colt Sporter), in MD or anywhere else and removing the upper for cleaning while in MD would put you in the same gray area.

I think the AG and MSP would have a hard time trying to convince even the most liberal judge that the intent of the legislation is to prevent non-banned guns from being disassembled for cleaning, however.

Mark75H · Apr 16, 2014

RoboRay said:
If that's your concern, it has nothing to do with 80% lowers at all... just buying an HBAR, any HBAR (since none of them have lowers stamped HBAR to the best of my knowledge, not even the named-legal Colt Sporter), in MD or anywhere else and removing the upper for cleaning while in MD would put you in the same gray area.

I think the AG and MSP would have a hard time trying to convince even the most liberal judge that the intent of the legislation is to prevent non-banned guns from being disassembled for cleaning, however.

Just like the NJ AG had such a hard time finding a judge to declare transporting HP ammo to your new residence from your old residence is a felony in NJ - because he did not have a stop at a shooting range between the 2 residences.

Swaged · Apr 16, 2014

RoboRay said:
If that's your concern, it has nothing to do with 80% lowers at all... just buying an HBAR, any HBAR (since none of them have lowers stamped HBAR to the best of my knowledge, not even the named-legal Colt Sporter), in MD or anywhere else and removing the upper for cleaning while in MD would put you in the same gray area.

HUH ??

Is a picture necessary?

webb297 · Apr 16, 2014

RoboRay said:
If that's your concern, it has nothing to do with 80% lowers at all... just buying an HBAR, any HBAR (since none of them have lowers stamped HBAR to the best of my knowledge, not even the named-legal Colt Sporter), in MD or anywhere else and removing the upper for cleaning while in MD would put you in the same gray area.

I think the AG and MSP would have a hard time trying to convince even the most liberal judge that the intent of the legislation is to prevent non-banned guns from being disassembled for cleaning, however.

Your HBAR lower has been registered with the State as an HBAR. So, you can do anything you want with it without making it other than that (ie attaching a non HBAR upper). This is a very murky area in MD law right now, and with the ability to just go and buy a good HBAR for a decent deal, it is not worth it for me to risk being a test case.

budman93 · Apr 16, 2014

webb297 said:
Your HBAR lower has been registered with the State as an HBAR. So, you can do anything you want with it without making it other than that (ie attaching a non HBAR upper). This is a very murky area in MD law right now, and with the ability to just go and buy a good HBAR for a decent deal, it is not worth it for me to risk being a test case.

My point exactly.

armed ferret · Apr 16, 2014

One of my lowers is "registered with the state" and it ain't an HBAR.

80% lowers available on Amazon??

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