Pinning a FSB on a Virgin barrel

jimbobborg · Dec 25, 2013

Story:

I bought a barrel with no pin cuts so I could have it cut down, threaded, have a FSB installed on it, install and pin a Flaming Pig (he had 3 at the time) and put it all together by a smith here who does this. That was in April. Fast forward to July, I call him up asking about my stuff. He says since the FSB is already drilled, it's not going to work, and he's going to get a virgin FSB so he can do the job, no extra cost since he didn't tell me about needing a non-cut FSB. He does the fitting in batches, so once he got to the next batch, he'd get the upper done. Fast forward to two weeks ago. I call up, he seems to have forgotten about my upper, and he didn't put a Flaming Pig aside for me like he said he would. He said he'd have it all done by the end of last week and would call me when it's done. It's now Christmas, no call, no upper. I'm thinking of pulling my stuff out of his shop and going somewhere else. Where can I get a FSB that isn't pre-drilled so I can get this done by someone competent? And is Noveske still making Flaming Pigs?

clandestine · Dec 25, 2013

The route you went was a more costly method unless the Barrel you chose dosent have a FSB Option. The Smith is correct, to do the job properly you need a virgin FSB and preferrably installed with taper pins. Not many "Smiths" know how to do this correctly and will install solid straight pins, roll pins, or use Clamp-on or set-screw Gas Blocks in place.

I would avoid the PIG. Its a good piece of gear but often used improperly. You use it for guns that have gas issues, insufficient gas flow or dwell time issues, or both.

If your upper is being built the smith, if they are worth their salt will test it and open the gas port incrementally until it runs as it should.

I cant suggest a smith locally but if you send it to adco they will set you straight in a few weeks.

jimbobborg · Dec 25, 2013

Thanks. I'm getting the barrel cut down to 13.5" and adding the Pig to bring it into compliance. I figured with the back pressure from the Pig would offset the lack of dwell time from the shorter barrel. If this is a bad idea, please let me know so I'll just stick with the 14.5" barrel and a pinned standard bird cage.

clandestine · Dec 25, 2013

The gas port the barrel already has may be too large in addition to the PIG, it may be perfect. Its just a precautionary thought. The Gas Port size varies by manufacturer and the size used can be effected by gas system length as well.

For example I have a 13.73" Noveske barrel that I uses a YHM 7.62 (1/2-28" Thread) which gives me 16.2" when pinned. It gassed out of the box to run without any muzzle device such as a PIG or sound suppressor. I do use a YHM Shield Mount over the YHM Q.D. muzzle device which gives a PIG "look" but it basically a thread protector and keeps pressure away from the trigger puller.

I understand now what you are doing as its the same I wanted to do. The only difference is my setup uses a Noveske Gas Block that's hidden under a 12.5" MI GEN 2 SS Rail where you use a FSB.

ADCO would be the best bet still, if it needs a larger gas port they will make it right, but if the gas port is too large for the PIG you may be overgassed unless you adopt a different muzzle device that does not create backpressure.

I can post a picture of mine tomorrow if you need any other ideas.

Ab_Normal · Dec 25, 2013

I'm sure Clandestine would like the extra business but aside from that he is correct about Adco being highly recommended.

jimbobborg · Dec 26, 2013

The local guy (not Hatfield's) has a pretty good rep, which is why this is so infuriating. Virginia Arms and Guns & Ammo warehouse both recommended him for this. I would have sent this off to Adco first instead of wasting 8 months.

jimbobborg · Dec 26, 2013

So, I call them up today, asking about my parts and what's going on. The "manager" says they (the smith crew) were all at lunch and would call me back later today. It seems they forgot to set a Pig aside for me like they said they would, which is why it's taking so long. It is now 3.45 hours past their closing time and no call. And they're all going to the gun show this weekend, so they aren't going to be available on the phone. I'm going to the show anyway, I think I'll ask them in person.

CStuard · Dec 30, 2013

That is ridiculous. Pull your stuff . They must have lot's of work because they sure don't care about you as a customer.

jimbobborg · Dec 30, 2013

Apparently, my upper "fell through the cracks." I'm going there on the 12th to pick up my stuff. If it's ready, great. If not, I'm raising hell about it.

rouchna · Dec 30, 2013

jimbobborg said:
Apparently, my upper "fell through the cracks." I'm going there on the 12th to pick up my stuff. If it's ready, great. If not, I'm raising hell about it.

Would you mind telling me who it is so I can avoid them? If you don't want to post, can you send me a PM?

jimbobborg · Feb 22, 2014

Update: I pulled my upper out on the 12th of this month since I couldn't get there earlier. Still no Pig, no barrel cut, but they did get a FSB installed. I got all of the parts out and took it home. I went to Hatfield's today and dropped the upper and lower off to have them shorten the barrel, install and head space a BCG, add anything else I missed, and fix some problems I created when I put my lower together. They have most of the parts in stock so this shouldn't take 8 months to do. I also dropped off my IAC 87 shotgun to have the stock shortened so I could actually run the action without taking the shotgun off of my shoulder.

smokey · Feb 22, 2014

Out the shop. Who was it?

jimbobborg · Feb 22, 2014

There are only two smiths in Manassas who work on ARs. It's not Hatfield's.

HT4 · Feb 26, 2014

clandestine said:
The route you went was a more costly method unless the Barrel you chose dosent have a FSB Option. The Smith is correct, to do the job properly you need a virgin FSB and preferrably installed with taper pins. Not many "Smiths" know how to do this correctly and will install solid straight pins, roll pins, or use Clamp-on or set-screw Gas Blocks in place.

Dear lord... please tell me that you are exaggerating about roll pins. How could anyone think that's a good idea? You could probably rotate it by hand with roll pins! Good-bye zero. :facepalm:

Why are solid pins bad for FSB's? I've seen a couple OEM FSB's with dowel pins. I suppose (in theory) the pins could walk a little easier than taper pins (which self-lock), but not if properly sized. After all, straight pins that are much smaller than those used OEM on some FSBs seem to work well on AK front sights and gas blocks. I'm not trying to be contrary... I'm honestly wondering what makes a taper pin better for this application. Thanks! :thumbsup:

clandestine · Feb 26, 2014

HT4 said:
Dear lord... please tell me that you are exaggerating about roll pins. How could anyone think that's a good idea? You could probably rotate it by hand with roll pins! Good-bye zero.

Why are solid pins bad for FSB's? I've seen a couple OEM FSB's with dowel pins. I suppose (in theory) the pins could walk a little easier than taper pins (which self-lock), but not if properly sized. After all, straight pins that are much smaller than those used OEM on some FSBs seem to work well on AK front sights and gas blocks. I'm not trying to be contrary... I'm honestly wondering what makes a taper pin better for this application. Thanks!

Oh yeah I have seen roll pins used, quite a bit. You are correct, the slightest hit and they walk and make zero shift or shut the gas port off.

Your summary is correct. Solid-Straight Pins can be used with success but they have to be super tight. Some people bend Solid-Straight pins to get a "lock" or "bite"

Taper Pins tension themselves in and make it harder for dummies to remove them.

DutchV · Mar 2, 2014

jimbobborg said:
Update: I pulled my upper out on the 12th of this month since I couldn't get there earlier. Still no Pig, no barrel cut, but they did get a FSB installed. I got all of the parts out and took it home. I went to Hatfield's today and dropped the upper and lower off to have them shorten the barrel, install and head space a BCG, add anything else I missed, and fix some problems I created when I put my lower together. They have most of the parts in stock so this shouldn't take 8 months to do. I also dropped off my IAC 87 shotgun to have the stock shortened so I could actually run the action without taking the shotgun off of my shoulder.

Okay, I'm no gunsmith, but shouldn't they have cut & threaded the barrel before installing the FSB? They're just gonna have to take it back off to get the barrel in the lathe.

jimbobborg · Mar 2, 2014

DutchV said:
Okay, I'm no gunsmith, but shouldn't they have cut & threaded the barrel before installing the FSB? They're just gonna have to take it back off to get the barrel in the lathe.

They were supposed to cut and thread before the pinning, but in 8 months they couldn't get the flash suppressor I wanted (even though they had 3 in stock when I dropped the upper parts off) so they couldn't measure how much to cut off. Back in December I told them to install the FSB since they seemed to have forgotten about me.

Pinning a FSB on a Virgin barrel

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