Clandestine (or other 1911 pros) I need advice!

So sadly I don't think I'll ever be able to afford a ground up custom 1911 from one of the big boys, seeing as if I ever did have thousands of dollars on hand that I didn't need for something else, I'd probably just buy a machine gun. I've decided instead to buy a good quality starter 1911 and have a good smith build it up for me the way I want it. It'll be a duty/combat/SHTF/carry (on a rare occasion) peice and while looks and accuracy are important, I'm mostly concerned with durability and reliability.

I've been looking at a Colt Series 70, because I always hear great things about their frame quality and they don't have any ghey internal safties. It seems there are a couple versions out there, are any of these better ideas than the others for a starting point? I don't want to spend extra on special features I'm just going to replace, but if there are certain parts that will make a difference that's worth knowing too. I'm also open to suggestions besides Colt, but I'd like the base gun to be no more than 12-1300 dollars if possible. Less is better. Thoughts?

Rock Island Armory - my double-stack .45 (I went with both sides of the bigger vs. more discussion) looks like a MIL-SPEC sidearm because it's MIL-SPEC except for the 14+1.

There are a bunch of pictures around here somewhere. I don't have any pictures...because all my guns sank my dingy as I towed it across the Bay.......

The Colt Series 70 is a great starting point. The internet price on the Colt's is around 800 bucks, and should be well below your budget. You might find you are very happy with the base gun with just a few mods. You don't have to spend thousands for a decent 1911. Watch the internet auctions. I picked one up for $691 new in the box.

Oh, basic base gun + a bunch of mags will run about half of your target budget.

If you are looking or a full out custom build from a local smith, Building of a Caspian frame and slide will give you a ton of options.

Fallschirmjaager said:

So sadly I don't think I'll ever be able to afford a ground up custom 1911 from one of the big boys, seeing as if I ever did have thousands of dollars on hand that I didn't need for something else, I'd probably just buy a machine gun. I've decided instead to buy a good quality starter 1911 and have a good smith build it up for me the way I want it. It'll be a duty/combat/SHTF/carry (on a rare occasion) peice and while looks and accuracy are important, I'm mostly concerned with durability and reliability.

I've been looking at a Colt Series 70, because I always hear great things about their frame quality and they don't have any ghey internal safties. It seems there are a couple versions out there, are any of these better ideas than the others for a starting point? I don't want to spend extra on special features I'm just going to replace, but if there are certain parts that will make a difference that's worth knowing too. I'm also open to suggestions besides Colt, but I'd like the base gun to be no more than 12-1300 dollars if possible. Less is better. Thoughts?

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Heres my input:

Dont do a full build, unless you want to flush your money away.

$575 Rock Island has a great semi-custom gun, only thing it may need is a C&S Trigger kit (Hammer, Sear, Disconnector, and Springs), and a Replacement Lightweight Trigger. They wont be hurt by a Throat, Polish, and Breach Face job ($75). I would also replace the Extractor and Firing Pin Stop ($100 Fit, tuned and Installed).

I dont have any links tho these but they are pretty much identical to the American Classic guns. Both the RIA and American Classic are made in the Phillipines if I recall correctly.


$575 American Classic has a great semi-custom gun, only thing it may need is a C&S Trigger kit (Hammer, Sear, Disconnector, and Springs), and a Replacement Lightweight Trigger. They wont be hurt by a Throat, Polish, and Breach Face job ($75). I would also replace the Extractor and Firing Pin Stop ($100 Fit, tuned and Installed).



http://americanclassic1911.com/deluxe1911.php



If you want a little better barrel off the bat and a "good" trigger (Not as nice as a C&S Kit), you cant go wrong with a S&W 1911. They run right around $1000 and have a lifetime warranty. They have a GREAT Finish/Fit. For a little more $100 you can get a rail model if that strikes your fancy. You wont need to tune the S&W.



http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=11101&storeId=10001&productId=14718&langId=-1&parent_category_rn=15709&isFirearm=Y



http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=11101&storeId=10001&productId=45926&langId=-1&parent_category_rn=15709&isFirearm=Y

Stay away from S.A., SIG, Para Ord., and Kimber 1911's. You may get lucky with one but they will likely need work. If your going to get one that may need work get a decked out RIA or American Classic and tweak it as you go. Colts are great guns to build off of. Their 1911's hold their value but they are FAR from perfect out of the box. Colt let go of many of their old timers many years ago and things went south from there. Take a look at a "Custom" 1911 from their shop and youll laugh at the silly ramp job they do. Its sad.

If you have a Gunsmith build you up a full custom 1911 you are dumping money down the drain. If you want a great gun thats perfect that retains its value then get a Les Baer.

However you decide you can turn to me for tips/advice and Ill be here whether you ever buy from the shop or not. Im here to help and offer my experience working on so many platforms. I dont want to see ANYONE throw their money down the drain, even if it means less work for our shop.

sig GSR

Just the kind of advice I was looking for! Thanks Chad! I have never been much of a Kook-Aid drinker, not even usually a huge fan of Colt weapons, I've just seen some unexpectedly low prices on some older Series 70's that I was assuming were made before Colt (and damn near everyone else) started going downhill in quality. I've heard all the bad news about Sig GSR's and Kimbers in the past decade or so, Taurus was never really an option for me. I'm kind of dissapointed to hear you say SA guns aren't really up to par either, I've always liked them from a non-owner point of view. Anything in particular to look out for with their models? (Other than the fact that you can't seem to find them anywhere these days.)

I'll definitely look into RIA, that seems like a hell of a deal. I typically don't pay too much mind to the "MIL-SPEC" aspect just because MIL-SPEC is really a minimum acceptable standard rather than a be-all-end-all badassitude rating, but that's two people in the same thread suggesting it. Definitley bears looking into. Is an older Series 70 subject to the same disparity between the Colt name and actual quality, or are they still decent guns? Unfortunately all the people I've heard singing its praises are very much Kool-Aid drinkers, be it Colt's, AAC's, KAC's, etc. All respectable companies, without a doubt, but I always take what Kool-Aid drinkers say with a grain of salt.

I'll probably be coming to you when I get this started too, (next couple months or so,) I've read enough of your advice to others to get the impression that you know what you're talking about. I have about 50% really solid ideas of what I want in this gun, and about 50% lack of understanding between various "custom" options, another thing I'm gonna need help with. Thanks again!

The S&W 1911 that I rented at Continental Arms pretty well sold me. Fortunately I found a use SA GI that someone clearly spent a little bit of money tweaking, so it fits my needs perfectly. I would have preferred the S&W though, if my budget had allowed.

Fallschirmjaager said:

Just the kind of advice I was looking for! Thanks Chad! I have never been much of a Kook-Aid drinker, not even usually a huge fan of Colt weapons, I've just seen some unexpectedly low prices on some older Series 70's that I was assuming were made before Colt (and damn near everyone else) started going downhill in quality. I've heard all the bad news about Sig GSR's and Kimbers in the past decade or so, Taurus was never really an option for me. I'm kind of dissapointed to hear you say SA guns aren't really up to par either, I've always liked them from a non-owner point of view. Anything in particular to look out for with their models? (Other than the fact that you can't seem to find them anywhere these days.)

I'll definitely look into RIA, that seems like a hell of a deal. I typically don't pay too much mind to the "MIL-SPEC" aspect just because MIL-SPEC is really a minimum acceptable standard rather than a be-all-end-all badassitude rating, but that's two people in the same thread suggesting it. Definitley bears looking into. Is an older Series 70 subject to the same disparity between the Colt name and actual quality, or are they still decent guns? Unfortunately all the people I've heard singing its praises are very much Kool-Aid drinkers, be it Colt's, AAC's, KAC's, etc. All respectable companies, without a doubt, but I always take what Kool-Aid drinkers say with a grain of salt.

I'll probably be coming to you when I get this started too, (next couple months or so,) I've read enough of your advice to others to get the impression that you know what you're talking about. I have about 50% really solid ideas of what I want in this gun, and about 50% lack of understanding between various "custom" options, another thing I'm gonna need help with. Thanks again!

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Im glad to help.

I want to be clarify that my non endorsement of certain manufacturers guns dont mean that Im calling peoples pieces junk. Being a gunsmith I get to see what people do to guns, what factories cant get right, and what guns seem to have problems the most. Many people unless they are EXTREMELY rich wont handle a 10th of the amount of guns that a busy gunsmith does. I just want to give my input on what I see day to day. I dont have any vested interest in pushing one gun or another, I just want people to get good info and make informed purchases with no regrets.

The S.A. guns are generally nice, and you are right they are HARD to find. They usually run fine after some extractor tweaks and a feed ramp polish. My bad experience with S.A. is a personal one. I bought a Loaded 1911 for my wife 5 years ago. It ha feeding issues you of the box so I tuned the extractor and polishe the ramp. I do no grinding, cutting or machining to the gun. The gun was running fine and when the wife was shooting it one day the dust cover (part under the front of the slide, blew off the gun. (Bad Cast/Forging). I called springfield and thay asked to send it back. They replaced the frame and charged me $175 for it.........get this, the warranty was voided because the ramp was polished

Never again S.A., never again............

With a Series 70 Colt youll be fine but after you add an extended/ambi safety, beavertail and machine it for low sights youll have $500-$600 more into it plus refinish fees. It you plan on leaving it stock then it should serve you fine with minor tweaks.

If you want those features be sure to get a gun that has them already because they will eat you up in labor/parts. If the work is already done then be sure to show me some pics and Ill tell you what I think of the deal.

My offer to help is open ended, no rush. Like I said Ill help even if you dont use us, that what im here for Brother.

Your making a smart choice, think your option thru, and think of what you would like to do. Dont rush into a purchase, take your time and get what you want, and wont regret.

Thanks again! I'm thinking I might have to come by the shop and waste some you your time later this week. I've got a lot to learn about 1911s if I'm gonna do this right, and while I know what I like in some regards, there's still plenty I have no clue about. Inshalla I'll be up there to pick your brain soon!

Fallschirmjaager said:

Thanks again! I'm thinking I might have to come by the shop and waste some you your time later this week. I've got a lot to learn about 1911s if I'm gonna do this right, and while I know what I like in some regards, there's still plenty I have no clue about. Inshalla I'll be up there to pick your brain soon!

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Anytime. Ill be in all day on Friday and Saturday if you can swing by.

Rock Island...are you guys kidding? Do you know anyone that owns one with 20k+ rounds through it?

For the best bang for the buck, and something you'll actually want to own forever and hand down to your kids, I'd go for an STI Trojan. USPSA shooters put many rounds through them: http://www.stiguns.com/guns/Trojan5/Trojan5.html

FWIW, nothing really will compare to the $3k custom 1911 that will feed anything, is crazy accurate, and stays tight even after 10k+ rounds.

lee2 said:

sig GSR

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This I agree with, I have one, and it shoots sweet, tigger is nice, sights are outstanding. Shoots better than I do

Blazin said:

Rock Island...are you guys kidding? Do you know anyone that owns one with 20k+ rounds through it?

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Yes. Don't knock it till you've tried one.

I said my piece based on experience, not emotional attachment to a particular firearm.

One dosent have to spend $3K on a 1911 to have an accurate and reliable piece.

Very few people/manufacturers put together a 1911 that runs out of the box on a wide scale. I listed the ones that do, consistently.

Blazin said:

Rock Island...are you guys kidding? Do you know anyone that owns one with 20k+ rounds through it?

For the best bang for the buck, and something you'll actually want to own forever and hand down to your kids, I'd go for an STI Trojan. USPSA shooters put many rounds through them: http://www.stiguns.com/guns/Trojan5/Trojan5.html

FWIW, nothing really will compare to the $3k custom 1911 that will feed anything, is crazy accurate, and stays tight even after 10k+ rounds.

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about 10,000 38 super loads and counting, 0 failures.

alucard0822 said:

about 10,000 38 super loads and counting, 0 failures.

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Ok, I stand corrected. I guess I've had so much bad luck with lower end 1911's that I instantly classified the RIA's with them.

rock island

Here is a review Gun tests did a few months back. http://www.gun-tests.com/issues/21_7/features/Rock-Island-Armory5732-1.html