AR lower transfer question

[clandestine]

I just looked at the 77R (current version) and don't see this. I see the statement that you have to notify if the regulated firearm is lost or stolen.

And strangely, you have to notify any "subsequent recipient of the firearm" of this requirement. Strange, since any subsequent recipient needs to fill out their own 77R.

The new ones were after 10/2013. The old ones definately said it.

 

[AJRB]

It can't be a pistol if it started as a rifle. If it started as a pistol, then made into a rifle, it can be made back into a pistol.

It could be an SBR.

My lowers have all been built as a pistol first, then a rifle, then SBR once the paperwork cleared.

lol yeah I had it backwards. How do they come up with this stuff?

Ok so If the OP were to buy a pre ban lower from someone, he then puts the limitation of HBAR only, since it started as a rifle? When the seller could keep it, and be able to put a non Hbar uppper on it, but still not be able to make it into a pistol.

So the ideal plan would be to buy a new post ban lower, or pre ban lower, never having been built into a rifle. Then build a new pistol, then swap a rifle upper on it, stamp later, done.

Think I'm tracking...maybe...but wait...

What about once it's an SBR, can it go back to a pistol?

 

[rico903]

The problem as I see it is the MSP Paperwork. When you purchase a Handgun or Receiver that's regulated, you initial on the form, that you undestand that the firearm is regulated and must be transferred as regulated.

I don't think a buyer will get in trouble, but the buyer may have their firearm confiscated by the MSP, well because they can.

Right here. But to muddy the waters, I bought a Saiga when it was regulated, then sold it after they were dereg'd. Multiple calls to MSP was told just get a bill of sale, we won't deal with it since it's nonred'd. Oy Vey

 

[outrider58]

lol yeah I had it backwards. How do they come up with this stuff?

Ok so If the OP were to buy a pre ban lower from someone, he then puts the limitation of HBAR only, since it started as a rifle? When the seller could keep it, and be able to put a non Hbar uppper on it, but still not be able to make it into a pistol.

So the ideal plan would be to buy a new post ban lower, or pre ban lower, never having been built into a rifle. Then build a new pistol, then swap a rifle upper on it, stamp later, done.

Think I'm tracking...maybe...but wait...

What about once it's an SBR, can it go back to a pistol?

That's what I do. And yes, keep a lower set up as a pistol. SBRs can have multiple uppers. I don't see why one couldn't reside on a pistol lower.

 

[Biggfoot44]

But it would be impossable to presently buy a PreBan reciever , since it is now after the Ban . All the discussion of how to make use of preban recievers , is for the benefit of those who planned ahead before it waas too late , and stocked up.

The other question has me scratching my head at a certain point. BATF says ; 1. If perminatly made into non-NFA form , you send letter so stating , and will be removed from the Register. 2. If tempprarily rendered into non-NFA form , it may be transported as if a Title 1 firearm ( aka "normal" ).

But , I'm scratching over all the possaaable e sequences:

Bare > SBR > Rifle = OK
Bare > Rifle > SBR > Rifle =OK
Bare > pistol > SBR > Rifle = OK

Bare > SBR > pistol = ??
Bare > rifle > SBR > Pistol = Probablt Not OK, but can't say for definate

 

[pilotguy299]

...

But , I'm scratching over all the possaaable e sequences:

Bare > SBR > Rifle = OK
Bare > Rifle > SBR > Rifle =OK
Bare > pistol > SBR > Rifle = OK

Bare > SBR > pistol = NO
Bare > rifle > SBR > Pistol = NO

SBR is still a rifle at the federal level, so the lower two are a no go.

 

[AJRB]

That's what I do. And yes, keep a lower set up as a pistol. SBRs can have multiple uppers. I don't see why one couldn't reside on a pistol lower.

Ok cool gotcha. Yeah I have my pre ban Engage billet pistol, and a pre ban adcor lower that started off as a rifle. Rifle came before the pistol, so the rifle is what it is. At least I'm not limited to Hbar with it.

 

[outrider58]

Ok cool gotcha. Yeah I have my pre ban Engage billet pistol, and a pre ban adcor lower that started off as a rifle. Rifle came before the pistol, so the rifle is what it is. At least I'm not limited to Hbar with it.

...and, you can SBR it.

 

[Sirex]

Nevermind. It fell thru. He really wanted my rifle it seemed and was in a rush to trade but because of the distance and working far away, having to get kids from daycare after work we just didn't synch up. He sold it for cash last night. I was looking forward to my 1st AR, but I guess for now I don't have to worry about stocking another caliber or learning a new platform. I'll get one eventually.Thanks guys

 

[Pinecone]

lol yeah I had it backwards. How do they come up with this stuff?

Ok so If the OP were to buy a pre ban lower from someone, he then puts the limitation of HBAR only, since it started as a rifle? When the seller could keep it, and be able to put a non Hbar uppper on it, but still not be able to make it into a pistol.

So the ideal plan would be to buy a new post ban lower, or pre ban lower, never having been built into a rifle. Then build a new pistol, then swap a rifle upper on it, stamp later, done.

Think I'm tracking...maybe...but wait...

What about once it's an SBR, can it go back to a pistol?

You cannot buy a pre-ban lower now and make it into a non-HBAR. As the last transfer took place after the ban. So if you now buy a pre-ban lower, is it no longer a pre-ban lower, to YOU. This is how I understand it.

MSP HAS come out and stated that if you own a pre-ban lower (that you bought pre-ban) you can make any type of rifle out of it.

I stated in another post, this pistol-rifle-pistol OK, but rilfe-pistol not OK, came about due to evolution of the rules. Originally, once it became a rilfe, it could never be a pistol. But, there was some commericial firearm that could go back and forth, so ATF allowed it, as it started as a pistol. So pistol to rifle and back to pistol was OK. But they did not exempt firearms that started as rifles. THis goes back to preventing "sawed off" long guns. Mainly used by criminals. Not that such laws stop them from sawing off long guns.

AFAIK, if you build a pistol then convert it to an SBR, you can go back to a pistol, but not 100% sure. Not sure ATF knows.

 

[outrider58]

Nevermind. It fell thru. He really wanted my rifle it seemed and was in a rush to trade but because of the distance and working far away, having to get kids from daycare after work we just didn't synch up. He sold it for cash last night. I was looking forward to my 1st AR, but I guess for now I don't have to worry about stocking another caliber or learning a new platform. I'll get one eventually.Thanks guys

If you take clandestine's SOTAR AR armoror's course, he will supply a loaner rifle if you don't yet own one.

 

[Sirex]

If it makes any difference after the fact, he said he contacted his FFL to get an answer, and the FFL told him since it was now a HBAR rifle it could be done face to face. That is what I was told.

 

[Sirex]

If you take clandestine's SOTAR AR armoror's course, he will supply a loaner rifle if you don't yet own one.

Does a Smith & Wesson M&P 15-22 count? Because that's probably my next buy. That or the M&P10

 

[outrider58]

Does a Smith & Wesson M&P 15-22 count? Because that's probably my next buy. That or the M&P10

No sorry. Must be direct gas impingement in 5.56-.223 caliber.

 

[swinokur]

and probably not a rimfire either.

 

[Biggfoot44]

#32 is ONE of the popular answers, and is possable to make a seemingly convincing it is 'correct' .

 

[jcutonilli]

But it would be impossable to presently buy a PreBan reciever , since it is now after the Ban . All the discussion of how to make use of preban recievers , is for the benefit of those who planned ahead before it waas too late , and stocked up.

The other question has me scratching my head at a certain point. BATF says ; 1. If perminatly made into non-NFA form , you send letter so stating , and will be removed from the Register. 2. If tempprarily rendered into non-NFA form , it may be transported as if a Title 1 firearm ( aka "normal" ).

But , I'm scratching over all the possaaable e sequences:

Bare > SBR > Rifle = OK
Bare > Rifle > SBR > Rifle =OK
Bare > pistol > SBR > Rifle = OK

Bare > SBR > pistol = ??
Bare > rifle > SBR > Pistol = Probablt Not OK, but can't say for definate

SBR is still a rifle at the federal level, so the lower two are a no go.

According to ATF Rul. 2011-4 (https://www.atf.gov/file/55526/download) parts kits can be converted back and forth between rifles and pistols so long as you don't create an NFA regulated firearm. Creating a functioning firearm from a stripped AR lower requires a parts kit that can be considered a rifle or a pistol (leave off the shoulder stock). It appears that the last two are acceptable based on my reading of ATF Rul. 2011-4

 

[AJRB]

Are Maryland gun shops selling lowers cash and carry yet? Is it a select few, or none?

I'm thinking about selling a couple spikes lowers, but am hesitant to put them up in the classifieds here and deal with the 8 day rule and involving an ffl from PA to MD. Might be easier for me to sell them to a PA resident I'm thinking.

 

[swinokur]

lowers still require a 77r and an 8 day wait.

classified rules prohibit illegal sales. you could go through an FFL.

 

[outrider58]

lowers still require a 77r and an 8 day wait.

I was told by Nate(Engage) on a previous thread, 77rs are no longer required for lowers(stripped?). Are they required again? My head hurts!