My 1st MSP transfer took over 2.5 hours

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  • 71Chevelle427

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 19, 2015
    3,304
    B'More County, Maryland
    and almost got me in trouble...through no fault of my own. :mad54:

    Was selling a stainless Ruger MK II, which is a 22LR pistol.

    I bought it for the wife to shoot, in February of this year, from an IP here. (She won't go shooting, and I do not like shooting a 22, so sale was imminent.)

    Met buyer, who checked out the gun and agreed to buy it for asking price.
    He then followed me to MSP barracks to do paperwork.
    Left gun in truck, locked in a case, as I read here to do.
    Trooper took our ID's, and buyer's HQL.
    Trooper then walked out to truck with me to write down serial number, and model of gun.
    Serial Number was XXX-XXX06
    Model (as engraved on gun): Ruger MK. II .22 Cal. Long Rifle

    Buyer is filling out the forms, and Trooper comes out and says the gun is coming back as STOLEN, in a burglary in Howard County, reported on June 7, 2015, which would be one helluva good trick, since it's never been out of my safe since I took delivery of it on February 24, 2015. :confused:

    Trooper then escorted me back outside to physically take possession of the gun so "he can provide HoCo Police with a better description".

    Then....it really got interesting. :o

    He prints out a very thorough list of my currently owned/registered handguns, where he shows me that the serial number on record, is one digit off, from the actual gun's physical serial number???
    XXX-XXX05, instead of XXX-XXX06

    So.....I have a handgun, that I bought and took possession of, in late February, that I "technically" LEGALLY do not own, and the one that I brought into the MSP barracks, is coming up as stolen....WTF?!?! :mad54::sad20:

    Trooper says he will try to see if Howard County Police have an actual description of the stolen gun, to compare to "mine". Keep in mind, this is Sunday...

    The a-hole "records" person he spoke to in Howard County :tdown: had the bright idea for the Trooper to just take the gun, and in the Trooper's words, "Then they can just come GET ME tomorrow"...GET ME = arrest me because the POS records clerk/officer at HOCO was too effing lazy to check the report and tell the Trooper the stolen gun's description....which would have at least helped clear up ONE of these 2 mysteries...

    While the Trooper is on the phone, trying his best to find out WTF is going on here, I call my son to ask him to bring me (ASAP) the pink paperwork from when I bought this gun. Right before my son gets there, he (the Trooper) comes out and says, "Unfortunately, we will be keeping this pistol, and our handgun unit, as well as ATF will now be involved due to the discrepancies in the LGS's paperwork and the gun still showing up as stolen."

    The Trooper, who was great, and could not have been any nicer or understanding throughout the whole ordeal so far, basically apologizes and says it's all but out of his hands now. He then goes back to take a phone call, but first tells me to hang tight and he'll give me a chain of custody receipt stating that they now have possession of the firearm, and I need to go to the LGS to demand my money back from the original purchase... :sad20:

    Buyer, now pretty much done with the whole thing, knows (as do I) the gun will never be seen again, shakes my hand and asks me to call him when all is said and done, to let him know what happened.

    I'm resigned to the fact that I now have 3,000 rounds of 22LR, a gun case, 4 spare mags, and a speedloader, for a gun I no longer have...:envy:

    The buyer's walking out the door, as the Trooper comes back out and says, "I have some good news for you"....and this is after I thought the good news was that I wasn't getting arrested for possession of a stolen firearm. :o

    It seems the MSP handgun unit (I think is what he called it), had awakened the knucklehead at HoCo Police records, and the RUGER that was stolen was in fact, a RIFLE...:lol2: Now, for whatever reason, the pistol, clearly says on it, "Ruger Mk. II .22 Cal. Long Rifle", and that is what the Trooper described to whomever was the next level up, after it came back as stolen...

    He also says, that he's already talked to someone in the Licensing Division, and the INCORRECT SERIAL NUMBER that our IP put on the paperwork, was also corrected, and the transfer faxed in...

    Talk about a ROLLER COASTER RIDE, lol... :wtf:

    I've honestly NEVER double checked any FFL paperwork for the correct serial number, but I will now.

    I also saw on the printout the Trooper had, that another FFL, also an IP here, has physical possession of TWO of my OLD handguns, but the MSP still has me as the registered owner of both...:mad54: I will address BOTH IP's tomorrow morning. One for nearly getting me in deep do-do for their mistake, and one for not ever logging in my OLD guns to the ATF, like I believe has to be done ASAP after they accept them...

    Thanks for letting me vent...:thumbsup:
     

    Venge

    Active Member
    Dec 6, 2013
    419
    Frederick Co.
    Wow! What a story.

    The pistol says Long Rifle because that's what the round is called. ".22 LR" means 22 Caliber Long Rifle. Just like a Glock Model 22 can say ".40 SW" on the side even though the pistol is not a Smith and Wesson... lol.
     

    Boom Boom

    Hold my beer. Watch this.
    Jul 16, 2010
    16,834
    Carroll
    Frustrating, no doubt. At least the trooper was good about it and did seem to go the extra mile to get it straightened out for you.

    The last part of your post touches on a fundamental problem with MSP handgun records. Depending on how you sell them, MSP records never change. Even if a gun is six owners down the road, MSP will still have it registered to you, forever.
     

    lilgibby

    "man gotta have a code."
    Sep 17, 2011
    1,038
    Elkton
    Crazy man! I will start doing that as well as I tak possession of a dig p226r this Friday.
     

    Drmsparks

    Old School Rifleman
    Jun 26, 2007
    8,441
    PG county
    I also saw on the printout the Trooper had, that another FFL, also an IP here, has physical possession of TWO of my OLD handguns, but the MSP still has me as the registered owner of both...:mad54: I will address BOTH IP's tomorrow morning. One for nearly getting me in deep do-do for their mistake, and one for not ever logging in my OLD guns to the ATF, like I believe has to be done ASAP after they accept them...

    Thanks for letting me vent...:thumbsup:

    Don't jump on your FFL here or ATF. MSP maintains it's own firearms database AND DOES NOT EVER UPDATE IT. FFL's update their books (in house) but ATF doesn't maintain an electronic database of owners....

    Once you buy a gun in Maryland it's always under your name. If you transfer it to someone else I'm 99.9% sure it shows up under both names.

    MSP is a clusterfudge when it comes to firearms.....they constantly mix up serial numbers between manufacturers (I had an AR15 lower that had the same serial number as a 380 lorcin they recovered in a crime)
     

    NateIU10

    Ultimate Member
    Apr 6, 2009
    4,587
    Southport, CT
    You will forever be listed as the "owner" of any firearm that had a 77R submitted in your name, that has nothing to do with the FFL.

    MSP incorrectly puts info in MAFSS all the time, are you sure that's not what happened?
     

    71Chevelle427

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 19, 2015
    3,304
    B'More County, Maryland
    You will forever be listed as the "owner" of any firearm that had a 77R submitted in your name, that has nothing to do with the FFL.

    MSP incorrectly puts info in MAFSS all the time, are you sure that's not what happened?

    As far as the FFL's filed paperwork, the ones that i have the 3 pink copies of, they put the wrong serial number on it, as well as on the receipt I got for the gun. It wasnt an MSP error. It was 100% the FFLs error that i didnt catch, nor should i have had to, IMO. I will triple check serial numbers now on anything i buy. Now I guess I am forever listed as an owner to a gun I never in fact ever owned. The one I was finally able to sell has a different serial number, off by that one digit.

    As for the ammo, when all was said and done, the buyer and I were finally able to officially start the 7 day wait process for the gun and ammo package deal that I was selling.

    What I am curious about is if someone other than the good Trooper I dealt with today somehow starts this whole effed up process over again if/when the serial number pops up as stolen again....

    I'm puzzled as to why Ruger has the same serial numbers on 2 completely different types of firearms....a 10/22 rifle and a 22 pistol. I just find that beyond weird that they would do that.
     

    NateIU10

    Ultimate Member
    Apr 6, 2009
    4,587
    Southport, CT
    As far as the FFL's filed paperwork, the ones that i have the 3 pink copies of, they put the wrong serial number on it, as well as on the receipt I got for the gun. It wasnt an MSP error. It was 100% the FFLs error that i didnt catch, nor should i have had to, IMO. I will triple check serial numbers now on anything i buy. Now I guess I am forever listed as an owner to a gun I never in fact ever owned. The one I was finally able to sell has a different serial number, off by that one digit.

    As for the ammo, when all was said and done, the buyer and I were finally able to officially start the 7 day wait process for the gun and ammo package deal that I was selling.

    What I am curious about is if someone other than the good Trooper I dealt with today somehow starts this whole effed up process over again if/when the serial number pops up as stolen again....

    I'm puzzled as to why Ruger has the same serial numbers on 2 completely different types of firearms....a 10/22 rifle and a 22 pistol. I just find that beyond weird that they would do that.

    That's unfortunate. Hopefully MSP changes the MAFSS entry for that gun which is easy and would prevent plenty of future headaches.
     

    71Chevelle427

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 19, 2015
    3,304
    B'More County, Maryland
    That's unfortunate. Hopefully MSP changes the MAFSS entry for that gun which is easy and would prevent plenty of future headaches.

    Trooper said they were taking care of it, even though it wasn't their fault. I hope that is what happens. I can only assume they did handle it internally since we were able to turn in the forms today before we left. I have the paperwork with me since he said they no longer keep any of it. He faxed it in, and gave the entire stack back to me and said I can release it in 7 days.

    Of course that's assuming the ATF and MSP gun task force aren't banging on the door tomorrow morning...:sad20:
     

    gabe72

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 26, 2012
    1,218
    sharpsburg
    Ive had experiences with msp calling me because they recovered firearms from an individual they executed warrants on who later was exonerated and demanding proof that i legaly transferee said firearms at 7 pm on a friday all handguns were sold thru local ffl and properly transfered
     

    A1Uni

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 28, 2012
    4,842
    Don't jump on your FFL here or ATF. MSP maintains it's own firearms database AND DOES NOT EVER UPDATE IT. FFL's update their books (in house) but ATF doesn't maintain an electronic database of owners....

    Once you buy a gun in Maryland it's always under your name. If you transfer it to someone else I'm 99.9% sure it shows up under both names.

    MSP is a clusterfudge when it comes to firearms.....they constantly mix up serial numbers between manufacturers (I had an AR15 lower that had the same serial number as a 380 lorcin they recovered in a crime)

    This. /\

    When a FFL accepts a gun from you, they don't notify anyone. They simply log it into their A&D book.

    If MSP sees the number again, it will only be when the FFL subsequently sells it to another buyer and does a new Form 77.
     

    71Chevelle427

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 19, 2015
    3,304
    B'More County, Maryland
    So you have to ask yourself does msp keep track of firearms or firearms owners? Or tinfoil buyers?

    All I know is he had a printout of every handgun I have ever owned, and at least one that I have technically never owned...I asked if I could have a copy of the sheet he had, and he said it was for MSP use only...:nono:

    The part of that list that bothers me is that IF there was ever a day where they came to my house to "take my guns"....their list shows guns I no longer possess, so can't help but wonder how that'd play out.
     

    rseymorejr

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 28, 2011
    26,274
    Harford County
    The part of that list that bothers me is that IF there was ever a day where they came to my house to "take my guns"....their list shows guns I no longer possess, so can't help but wonder how that'd play out.

    With you handcuffed, face down, on your living room floor while your entire house is being taken apart.


    OR
    If "they" are coming to confiscate all our guns, it might turn out ......differently.
     

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