MAC Makes a Good Point About the Sig Brace and ATF

[fred333]

Is the Sig SB15 Brace legal or illegal?

 

[protegeV]

Is the Sig SB15 Brace legal or illegal?

shouldn't this be in the handgun section?

 

[SRD]

shouldn't this be in the handgun section?

Depends on which letter you use.

 

[AssMan]

What was the good point?


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[Decoy]

I think he accidentally posted the wrong link, this is the correct link

 

[Broncolou]

What was the good point?


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It would be hard to tell the difference between "cheeking" and "shouldering" from a distance or the wrong angle.......

 

[AssMan]

Yes, the OPs link was the wrong one.


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[Sharp]

It is a good video. And unfortunately, he's right about the risk it presents for owners. I had been really looking forward to putting together a 9mm pistol version of a subgun with a brace until this opinion came out. The added risk makes me want to put my money elsewhere.

 

[fred333]

I think he accidentally posted the wrong link, this is the correct link

You're correct. I posted the wrong link. I apologize.

 

[fred333]

It is a good video. And unfortunately, he's right about the risk it presents for owners. I had been really looking forward to putting together a 9mm pistol version of a subgun with a brace until this opinion came out. The added risk makes me want to put my money elsewhere.

As it happens, just two days prior to the appearance of the infamous opinion letter, I was at Engage trying to decide whether to take the plunge on a Sig AR pistol/brace. But, in view of the purpose of the NFA, my gut told me the [shouldered] brace option was just too good to be true. So I decided to wait a bit and it turned out to be a good move.

Although the brace has its limitations, the additional cost, ATF paperwork and legal entanglements for a pistol that would likely see most of its usage outside of MD (requiring still more paperwork/hassle/risk), the Sig/brace combo just seemed like a more than reasonable compromise. Now, since I can't foresee ATF doing another 180 (in our direction) and making it official/permanent, I've gotta decide whether it's worth SBR'ing since the non-shouldered brace isn't a stable option to me.

 

[Minuteman]

Good video, I was making the same point to some friends on our drive to 2A Tuesday.

 

[mranaya]

Good video, I was making the same point to some friends on our drive to 2A Tuesday.

Yep. And you made some excellent points. For instance, you noted that recoil could cause the brace to touch your shoulder, holding a pistol with two hands could now be ruled re-manufacturing a firearm from a pistol to an SBR, and holding a rifle with one hand could re-manufacture it into a pistol. Now, with the green-tip ruling, it seems the ATF does not have enough work to do regarding actual violent criminals and is manufacturing new laws that target lawful citizens. Are they still butt hurt and lashing out over being reigned in from their tyrannical assault against Ares Armor?

 

[md_al]

It is a good video. And unfortunately, he's right about the risk it presents for owners. I had been really looking forward to putting together a 9mm pistol version of a subgun with a brace until this opinion came out. The added risk makes me want to put my money elsewhere.

You may attach a single point sling and an AFG then push the AR pistol away until the sling is taught rather than pulling the pistol in and the brace touching your shoulder. The taught sling will stabilize the pistol.

You can still cheek weld the brace without it being near your shoulder. Although like MAC mentioned depending on the angle one may think that the brace is touching your shoulder.

 

[md_al]

It would be hard to tell the difference between "cheeking" and "shouldering" from a distance or the wrong angle.......

Exactly! If you are in a gun range, would how would they determine if you are shouldering the brace or using it as a cheek weld unless they are right beside you as you shoot.

 

[outrider58]

More mud we have to swim through. Jeezis!

 

[Sharp]

You may attach a single point sling and an AFG then push the AR pistol away until the sling is taught rather than pulling the pistol in and the brace touching your shoulder. The taught sling will stabilize the pistol.

I realize this, but like the OP said in response to me:

the non-shouldered brace isn't a stable option to me.

Maybe my view will change when I have more money to throw at it, but my limited finances mean I want the most practicality possible out of my firearms.

 

[md_al]

I tried firing my Sig AR pistol on cheek weld without the sling and it was hard to anticipate the recoil when it was free floating.

I saw a review using this technique on a Sig pistol with a scope I believe and he was hitting targets 100 yards away.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JwUMLQ2X5hU

I'll practiced pushing the pistol away from the sling and will shoot using this technique one of these days.

I do hope this nonsense about shouldering and re-designing gets cleared up soon.

edit: The reviewer was using a Sig 556 pistol, a Urban ERT sling and an Eotech

 

[Doctor_M]

Just put in an order for one this week... intend to use the brace as it was designed, but if I did decide to shoot from the cheek and for some reason got busted, I would be sure to tell my attorney about this video and try and show it to the jury.... all things being equal it could go a long way to establishing reasonable doubt. Thanks for posting.

 

[Waz]

if I did decide to shoot from the cheek and for some reason got busted, I would be sure to tell my attorney about this video and try and show it to the jury.... all things being equal it could go a long way to establishing reasonable doubt. Thanks for posting.

i wish they'd showed footage from other angles, like from behind or from shooters left. the angle he showed was forward or the shooter, which is kind of "down range."

if thats the view the observer has, he might have other things to worry about.

 

[md_al]

Using a sling with my Sig PM400, the Sig arm brace is a good 2-3 inches away from my shoulder but still allowing a decent cheek weld. I want to try shooting it in this setup but I will likely go in an off time to avoid grazing bears.

I'm currently using a cheapo Midway single point sling. I did put an order for an Urban ERT sling specific for the Sig P516 which closely resembles my pistol.

While shouldering the brace seems the most ergonomic posture the fog that the latest opinion letter generates a feeling of mistrust that someone who paid a form1 may rat me out. I'll use the sling for now.

The MAC video brings an interesting point about the difficulty in proving that actual shouldering occurred, and the silliness of the latest letter. Then again the Bear might decide to take you into custody and I am allergic to kennels.