Petition for Concealed Carry for Veterans

[iH8DemLibz]

This counts on the libs looking at things logically. They don't. They tried to ban an entire class of firearms because they are scary. This, despite evidence that those firearms are rarely used in crimes. They refused to consider any provisions which would have punished criminals. You think they will see the light?

281 is a done deal. It's in the past. Sucks to be us.

I'm simply saying it's time to move on to the topic of carrying guns for self protection.

As for seeing the light, many Lefties in power saw the light on the 4th of November and boy oh boy was it bright. A bright red wave that flowed from sea to shining sea.

It was a polar shift. A seminal moment. A sea change. A blue-veined throbber that hasn't quite subsided for some.

The world is a patently different place than it was in 2013 when 281 became the law of the land. We now have ISIS, beheadings on our own shores, police attacked by hatchet wielding whackadoos, and a plethora of other unpleasant acts of unadulterated nuttery.

Folks, including Liberal folks, are scared. That wave of red didn't happen just because of Republicans. Many Democrats jumped ship to help us out.

For this reason, we have a better chance of getting permits now than everbefo.

Reach out to the Democrats. White ones. Black ones. Hispanic ones. Asian ones. If there's a Maryland Democrat that only has one digit left on their hand to pull a trigger with, find them.

If scared, honest, family loving, every day Democrats put pressure on those Democrats in Annapolis, we would have a much better chance.

For a year and a half, I've watched every member on here chew the ass off of every other member on here over carry permits and carry rights. Stop concentrating on us. You (MSI) already have our votes and the Ass-Hats in Annapolis don't care about our votes. But they would damn-skippy care about the votes of those that put them in power time and time again.

You get THOSE folks to sit down at the hearings next year and write letters and give testimony and the Delegates and Representatives that walk out on US and take lunch breaks while WE'RE talking will sit down and listen.

Not a rant. Just frustrated over something so painfully obvious.

If anyone could screw up a perfectly good wet-dream, it's a group of Republicans.

Let's get the sheets wet on this dream.

Shall Issue Carry for Self Protection.

 

[teratos]

My point is the the libs don't care about facts. They only care about their Liberal agenda

 

[iH8DemLibz]

If their Liberal agenda is no longer their voter's agenda, they will no longer have a Liberal agenda.

 

[Abulg1972]

281 is a done deal. It's in the past. Sucks to be us.



I'm simply saying it's time to move on to the topic of carrying guns for self protection.



As for seeing the light, many Lefties in power saw the light on the 4th of November and boy oh boy was it bright. A bright red wave that flowed from sea to shining sea.



It was a polar shift. A seminal moment. A sea change. A blue-veined throbber that hasn't quite subsided for some.



The world is a patently different place than it was in 2013 when 281 became the law of the land. We now have ISIS, beheadings on our own shores, police attacked by hatchet wielding whackadoos, and a plethora of other unpleasant acts of unadulterated nuttery.



Folks, including Liberal folks, are scared. That wave of red didn't happen just because of Republicans. Many Democrats jumped ship to help us out.



For this reason, we have a better chance of getting permits now than everbefo.



Reach out to the Democrats. White ones. Black ones. Hispanic ones. Asian ones. If there's a Maryland Democrat that only has one digit left on their hand to pull a trigger with, find them.



If scared, honest, family loving, every day Democrats put pressure on those Democrats in Annapolis, we would have a much better chance.



For a year and a half, I've watched every member on here chew the ass off of every other member on here over carry permits and carry rights. Stop concentrating on us. You (MSI) already have our votes and the Ass-Hats in Annapolis don't care about our votes. But they would damn-skippy care about the votes of those that put them in power time and time again.



You get THOSE folks to sit down at the hearings next year and write letters and give testimony and the Delegates and Representatives that walk out on US and take lunch breaks while WE'RE talking will sit down and listen.



Not a rant. Just frustrated over something so painfully obvious.



If anyone could screw up a perfectly good wet-dream, it's a group of Republicans.



Let's get the sheets wet on this dream.



Shall Issue Carry for Self Protection.

^ this. I'm not signing this stupid petition. One for all, or none for all.


Andy

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[HeatSeeker]

Everyone is different, no one knows how people will act after they get a CCW permit, some will, some won't. The sad truth is that the vast majority of gun owners already do nothing to help protect their rights. So let's just put aside the discussion about CCW carriers continuing to support or not.

Now the issue is simply about supporting any individual or group that wants to make a case to get a permit. If you do not support them then the alternative is that you oppose them.

So this thread really is simply about some people opposing veterans having even the possibility of getting CCW permits as a group.

Who's next? Let's say someone proposed that all retirees should be favorably considered for a permit, unless an individual is specifically prohibited.

Then who next will you oppose becoming "shall issue"?

If you are in the all or none camp, be prepared to look the retired vet in the face and tell her you don't want her to have a permit and why. This position of selfishly denying others is what is divisive.

There is no "all" or none, ask yourself where you would draw the line if you were king for the day. It's probably different for all of us, so until we can get most of us in via a broader statewide interpretation of shall issue, let's support every person or group and encourage incremental change back toward the way things should be.

Your just wrong!

No one here is opposing veterans, or anyone else getting a carry permit. You just want to ignore what our state requires to get a permit. The problem is that you cannot ignore it. MD is May Issue, so if a veteran can provide G&S then give him a permit. That's what it takes. Doctors and Lawyers still have to list G&S with their applications and then it is MSP that decides if it is good enough. Not other permit holders. Your statement '"then who next will you oppose becoming shall issue" is ignorant. Shall Issue is the goal.

 

[Abulg1972]

You're.


Andy

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Minuteman]

Your just wrong!

No one here is opposing veterans, or anyone else getting a carry permit. You just want to ignore what our state requires to get a permit. The problem is that you cannot ignore it. MD is May Issue, so if a veteran can provide G&S then give him a permit. That's what it takes. Doctors and Lawyers still have to list G&S with their applications and then it is MSP that decides if it is good enough. Not other permit holders. Your statement '"then who next will you oppose becoming shall issue" is ignorant. Shall Issue is the goal.

Yep, you've got it pretty much right. I wasn't clear, I was speaking more to the larger effort and movement. We the people decide what's right and wrong, then our representatives, well, they represent us by proposing bills, or voting in accordance to their conscious - because we voted them in to do so. If we all get behind something, this is our best chance to make it so.

Unfortunately, here in Maryland the system has been corrupted, the electoral districts have be gerrymandered and too many of the people have been fooled.

Thanks for your participation and I hope for another chance to persuade you that the more good guys with guns make us all safer.

 

[HeatSeeker]

No need to persuade me, I agree. My point is that right now in Md the only way to get the good guys to have guns is to follow the requirements. That means they need G&S. The only way to stop the need for G&S is too establish Shall Issue. You just want to make being a Veteran another form of G&S.

 

[Blaster229]

So to me, this poll is like this.
You have two people standing in front of you who want permits. One is a vet, the other, non. You look the vet in the eye and say to him "I hope you get your carry permit", right in front of the non vet and then walk away.

 

[HeatSeeker]

^^^This sounds respectable. Shake his hand and thank him for his service.

 

[Bald Fat Guy]

If we were *us* , and sitting around the campfire/ dorm room / whatever , shooting the bull about how to create a perfect world in the abstract , then we'd all say carry for everyone ( not specifically prohibited from ownership ) or nothing.

Meanwhile after we wake up , we're back in Maryland. The only place Shall Issue for Marylander will origate is First Street NE Washington DC. The chance of MGA passing Shall Issue without a gun held to their heads by black robe wearers is ZERO.

( What I think Minuteman is saying ) .

Don't think of him advocating a further "Carve Out" , think of him advocating a major " Carve IN " . If everyone ( at least those whom being armed isn't an unequivical mandatory part of their livelyhood) surrendered their Permits ( albeit as restricted as most are ) , it's not going to induce the MGA to see the error of their ways , and change course.

My biggest concern about creating new wholesale classes of privledged people is that's it's also a futile pipedream.

This will have us not only squandering our efforts , but deviding ourselves too.

If anyone can convincingly show me that somthing like would have a 1 in 3 chance of getting out of both committees , I'll gladly jump on the bandwagon.

 

[Minuteman]

Heatseeker & Blaster229: Pretty much yep. But you are ignoring the other people that are already ahead of the vet who already have their permits. And you are not ignoring the others in line, you are telling them there shouldn't be a line and you also agree they should be next and you also wish them good luck.

Having to provide a G&S reason that someone else decides is 'good enough' is wrong. It's also wrong for those who have permits to get in the way of others efforts to get theirs. What if next time they feel your reason to obtain a permit is no longer good enough? They put you back in the line, that's not right either. This entire process is arbitrary and capricious. I've been supporting others and involved in this issue for years. Will you attend hearings, join MSI, participate in rallies and support 2A in Maryland with me?

 

[Minuteman]

If we were *us* , and sitting around the campfire/ dorm room / whatever , shooting the bull about how to create a perfect world in the abstract ...

( What I think Minuteman is saying ) .

Don't think of him advocating a further "Carve Out" , think of him advocating a major " Carve IN " . If everyone ( at least those whom being armed isn't an unequivical mandatory part of their livelyhood) surrendered their Permits ( albeit as restricted as most are ) , it's not going to induce the MGA to see the error of their ways , and change course.

My biggest concern about creating new wholesale classes of privledged people is that's it's also a futile pipedream.

This will have us not only squandering our efforts , but deviding ourselves too.

If anyone can convincingly show me that somthing like would have a 1 in 3 chance of getting out of both committees , I'll gladly jump on the bandwagon.

I like the way you put that and it's accurate, I want more people "In", not creating groups to exclude, 95+% are already excluded. All effort today should be on removing G&S or redefining it to mean simple personal protection. In the mean time supporting any individual or group to also be included. Please don't twist this into a divisive debate about the haves and have nots.

Go read my many posts on this subject, read my analogy of getting more people on the bus. And if you have a permit, don't be a hypocrite and hurt others chances of getting a permit.

Live and let live.

It is not a pipe dream that we can make incremental changes over time to make things better. If you don't want to support a vet being added to the short list of favorably considered, at least don't sabotage them. Many of you haven't been involved in this issue to know that in the past, some progun organizations have actually opposed measures that could have helped others with permits have it a bit easier. These things are very important and discussed all the time. If you are not involved in the debate, and you seem to care, you should be.

 

[Blaster229]

Who is the next "class" to fight for their carry right after veterans get approved?

 

[Minuteman]

Who is the next "class" to fight for their carry right after veterans get approved?

There have already been a few. There were the state employees that go around inspecting liquor licenses and enforcement, they tried. Guess who opposed them?

There were the cops who asked if they could only have to renew their permits every 5 years instead of 2, then 3 every time thereafter. Guess who opposed them?

What other group do you think might ask to be included next, that would have the best chance of being included? Pilots maybe, they already can carry to, from and while working right? Why not let them carry all the time?

We lost our rights incrementally over time, this is the way to get them back, one citizen - one politician, one bill at a time.

 

[Norton]

There have already been a few. There were the state employees that go around inspecting liquor licenses and enforcement, they tried. Guess who opposed them?

There were the cops who asked if they could only have to renew their permits every 5 years instead of 2, then 3 every time thereafter. Guess who opposed them?

What other group do you think might ask to be included next, that would have the best chance of being included? Pilots maybe, they already can carry to, from and while working right? Why not let them carry all the time?

We lost our rights incrementally over time, this is the way to get them back, one citizen - one politician, one bill at a time.

More than 1/3 of all permits are issued to law enforcement in this state. The # of permits issued to people like for the purposes of self-defense is 1.8% as of 2012.

So, we're supposed to now say LEOs can go through the onerous process of renewing their almost guaranteed permits every 5 years, while the average citizen has to do it every two years and then gamble their $150 non-refundable fees?

Yup…no special treatment at all already, and how has that worked out for the average schmuck who wants his permit? I don't exactly see the LE community storming the state house on my behalf.

 

[AntiGun]

Who is the next "class" to fight for their carry right after veterans get approved?

women - At least then my wife could defend the family.

In general I think this tactic would cause more division among an already fracturing gun owning population. This 'carve in' tactic is in effect gerrymandering the system and we've see how well that works out.

At least if it were women then the men could argue discrimination and force the issue.

 

[PJDiesel]

Why are we talking about the GA writing Shall Issue law? That's not even remotely required, a simple definition of G&S by the MSP Superintendent solves this whole issue........

 

[Norton]

Why are we talking about the GA writing Shall Issue law? That's not even remotely required, a simple definition of G&S by the MSP Superintendent solves this whole issue........

Yup. If the current governor doesn't make inroads into this in his first term, there's little point in this community supporting him. This is a chance to show that who's in office matters.

 

[Minuteman]

women - At least then my wife could defend the family.

In general I think this tactic would cause more division among an already fracturing gun owning population. This 'carve in' tactic is in effect gerrymandering the system and we've see how well that works out.

At least if it were women then the men could argue discrimination and force the issue.

At least someone gets it.

And yes we should have supported that bill, and say at the same time, it's more efficient, cost effective and should be applied to everyone else. But not actively oppose them or any other groups, that what divides us.

The police also have no restrictions, if we trust retired cops with a permit (no restrictions), we should allow everyone else with a permit to have no restrictions.

Better yet, just define G&S. For now, that would be a win.