Engage to sell so called "smart gun"

[Dogmeat]

Although I suspect sales will be abysmal, I am actually glad someone has them for sale. Everyone should have a choice about what they choose to buy. If someone wants this technology, then by all means, they should be able to buy it.


JUST DON"T FORCE ME TO BUY ONE OR MAKE IT MY ONLY CHOICE!

 

[JMintzer]

Im really sorry some people feel the way they do about us but that is their CHOICE and they're entitled to it.

I consider myself exceptionally pro-gun. I will defend that right with my life or by taking others. Its that simple for me. I consider gun rights my personal jihad, which is why you see many of the things we do. We consistently push the envelope here in MD and I am extremely confrontational with the powers the be. In fact, I know have to pose any of my questions to MSP in writing and they will respond via letter. Apparently my attitude is reviled there. Moreover, I dont know any other dealer that has been as active against SB281 than us although everyone has contributed greatly for our cause.

This comes down to just a few things for me. The foremost being is that we can get people who are on the fence regarding gun ownership to buy guns. As many of you know, when you take an anti-gunner shooting they almost invariably love it. Yesterday, Chris Hayes from MSNBC shot my UMP and loved it. We all know that he represents the most extreme left wing of our media. However, if we can get those guys behind guns it is in our favor. If we can get people who are on that fence to go out and shoot it will only be good for us. Isnt that what we are supposed to be about? Encouraging the natural right to keep and bear arms?

I cannot stand that progun people are calling for the prohibition of a firearm. It doesnt matter what it is. That is opposed to everything we stand for and our entire platform. We cannot acquiesce to the fear that some ******* politician would make this mandatory. Thats what we have the REAL guns for, to prevent that. We cannot compromise our values but we cannot bow down to fear either. What drives people talking about gun prohibition or boycotts is fear. It doesnt matter if its from the right or left.

Despite what is said by others who support this technology, there is only one application for it and that is the gun right fencesitter. In its present configuration it is not ready for law enforcement use. It most likely is not ready for self defense use BUT it could get the soccer mom crowd, the urban dweller, or the pinko lefty into guns. This would be a good thing.

Anyone is free to email me at andy@engagearmament.com or call the shop at 301-838-3151 to discuss if you want. Or come into the shop and talk to me.

Werd...

 

[AssMan]

Not interested in the technology nor providing a channel for its distribution. But hey, it's your business. I personally think that you're smoking crack thinking that soccer mom's are going to embrace this monstrosity and swoop in to defend the 2A with their votes.

Hopefully you placed a large order.

 

[tdant]

Armatix "Smart Gun" Opinion

Would Engage like customer or non customer opinions on the decision to sell the Armatix iP1 "smart" pistol? I dont want to disrespect your thread by giving my opinion if you dont want it. If you dont, please delete this or respond, you wont hurt my feelings.

I am a customer and I would like to open the conversation up because you guys are the first to sell this pistol and I believe this decision affects the gun community as a whole and the potential future of this technology.

 

[AssMan]

So, who's actually going to buy these?

Anti-gunners?

Lol, apparently. And hipsters.

 

[Biggfoot44]

I see the line bandied about that this product will potentially be popular with buyers who otherwise not own a gun. I'm not really seeing that. Overly skittish potential gun purchasers already have a plethora of digital and biometric safes of every size and configuration. Since potential buyers that skittish will be keeping then locked with multiple redundency until they actually arrive at a range anyway, this new technology wouldn't really add anything for them.

I do see the main market being serious collectors, who see the chance to get in on the ground floor with the next generation's Gyrojet.

 

[Engage Armament]

Please do but email me at andy@engagearmament.com, call the shop at 301-838-3151, or swing by the shop if you have a minute.

Or if we can keep it civil we can do it here.

 

[tdant]

Thanks, I'll send an email.

 

[fred333]

Ultimately, one way or the other, I'm sure it'll sell. As will other "smart" guns. They're just another nail in the Second Amendment's coffin.
Within twenty years' time, short of an insurrection, I don't see the private ownership of guns in the United States as being a legal option.

 

[Ragnar]

Everything Andy says about this makes sense to me. I don't believe in banning any guns, including guns like this one that I would never guy.

 

[nedsurf]

It looks like you are addressing the market you foresee to be around you. Given your location, I'd bet it is a shrewd business move. Politically, your selling the product to win over fence sitters is worth a try. Time will tell with that motive. The NJ legislative "doomsday machine" does put a damper on things though. That needs to be addressed through the courts if they proceed to enforce that garbage.
I would worry about the novice who will only buy this sort of firearm putting too much trust in this tech. ignoring the basic gun safety rules and having a tragic event. One can't address all stupidity.
Looking at the product itself, it seems to be just another safety, complicated as it is. There are already people who don't like any safety or overly complicated safeties on their equipment. Some people remove them such as a popular online video gun critic. It appears that at the end of the day, the politics of making this sort of thing mandatory is what strikes a chord.

 

[North86]

Kinda throws the gun owners in N.J. under the bus too.. Yes?

Greetings from California. I found this story linked on our site (Calguns.net) and figured I'd see what you all thought over here.

Here in California we are on the front lines of the gun control fight. Our state legislature are very aggressive in pushing a very strict gun control agenda. Last year, we nearly had all semi-automatic center fire rifles banned from being sold in the state.

Oak Tree Gun Club here near LA was involved in some way with this Armatix gun. The reaction to this was swift and fierce. While the existence of the Armatix doesn't affect me (today), it effects millions of people in New Jersey (my home state). The law in New Jersey basically mandates that within three years, ALL new pistols for sale in the state must have this technology once any pistol with this technology becomes available for sale anywhere in the USA.

New Jersey's gun laws are draconian beyond belief. You have to get a permit to buy a pistol. That permit expires in 30 days. If you don't buy one, you have to re-apply. Each pistol has to have its own permit. Forget about ever getting a permit to carry. The Drake v Jerejian case pending in the SCOTUS is from New Jersey. Take a look at that if you want more details.

Right now, you have the ability to influence the crappy laws of New Jersey and help your fellow gun owners. You do business with Engage. You are their bread and butter.

You need to realize that we are in this together. Once your law makers see this law go into effect in Jersey, how long do you think it will be before they try and force Maryland to do the same? Or Delaware, or Pennsy, or NY or California? This isn't just New Jersey's fight.

Thanks for letting me post here. I appreciate your consideration.

 

[Engage Armament]

Thanks, I'll send an email.

Im serious though, if you want to call me please do. Anyone on here. You know the shop number, if you want to call my cell PM me and I'll send it to you as well.

 

[aireyc]

Smart guns are the dumbest thing going. They attempt to solve a problem that either doesn't exist, or that can be easily avoided. And in the one case where they may have *some* legitimacy, you are effectively creating an entirely new problem.

Most of the "problems" a smart gun attempts to fix can usually be solved by putting the firearm in a locked safe, or by affixing a cable lock. Just substitute "key" or "combination" with "smart watch," and most of your bases are covered. I would think it's a lot less burdensome to carry your safe/lock key around on your keyring than to wear something like a separate watch or ring. But maybe that's just me.

The only scenarios with some legitimacy would be if a person steals a firearm, because the smart gun wouldn't work. But where was the smart watch when the gun was stolen? Are people going to walk around all day with a smart watch and no smart gun? How many people have their guns stolen off their person? How often are police murdered with their own sidearm? I would think you'd either be using the smart gun (in which case you have the watch with you), or the gun would be somewhere else, in which case I don't know why someone would want to walk around wearing the watch all day when you can just lock it up (with the smart gun) in a safe.

I have no idea how often people have their guns stolen during confrontation, but I can't imagine it's that significant, so the question is if those situations are worth the potential for the watch to fail, or to be put in situations where, say, there's a home intruder who attacks the person with the smart gun, and then someone else living at the house has no means of using the firearm for self defense.

I think these guns are just a cover for more anti-gun legislation, just like the microstamping in CA. I don't care if Engage is selling it, and it's great if people somehow think this is revolutionary or whatever, but these things are just promoting ignorance over general firearm safety and common sense. The blame and responsibility will continue to shift from the person to the object.

 

[SWO Daddy]

I don't doubt the intentions/convictions of the folks at Engage for a minute, but I can't help but think that 90% of the customers for this in the DC region will be media types writing "common sense" gun control pieces which ask why every gun doesn't come with this technology.

As I said earlier, even the title of the WaPo piece is a pot shot at the NRA.

 

[AssMan]

Greetings from California. I found this story linked on our site (Calguns.net) and figured I'd see what you all thought over here.

Here in California we are on the front lines of the gun control fight. Our state legislature are very aggressive in pushing a very strict gun control agenda. Last year, we nearly had all semi-automatic center fire rifles banned from being sold in the state.

Oak Tree Gun Club here near LA was involved in some way with this Armatix gun. The reaction to this was swift and fierce. While the existence of the Armatix doesn't affect me (today), it effects millions of people in New Jersey (my home state). The law in New Jersey basically mandates that within three years, ALL new pistols for sale in the state must have this technology once any pistol with this technology becomes available for sale anywhere in the USA.

New Jersey's gun laws are draconian beyond belief. You have to get a permit to buy a pistol. That permit expires in 30 days. If you don't buy one, you have to re-apply. Each pistol has to have its own permit. Forget about ever getting a permit to carry. The Drake v Jerejian case pending in the SCOTUS is from New Jersey. Take a look at that if you want more details.

Right now, you have the ability to influence the crappy laws of New Jersey and help your fellow gun owners. You do business with Engage. You are their bread and butter.

You need to realize that we are in this together. Once your law makers see this law go into effect in Jersey, how long do you think it will be before they try and force Maryland to do the same? Or Delaware, or Pennsy, or NY or California? This isn't just New Jersey's fight.

Thanks for letting me post here. I appreciate your consideration.

I, for one, appreciate your broader perspective.

 

[iH8DemLibz]

I'm not sure this discussion has anything to do with Engage's right to sell this firearm or not sell this firearm. As others have stated, it is absolutely there right to do what they wish within the confines of their own building.

That said, I feel the bigger issue is taking an idea (Smart Gun Technology) that 99.7% of gun owners are wholly against and adding legitimacy to it, by way of offering it for sale, is a really bad idea.

Once this technology is embraced, if even on a small scale, it will give the Left and the Anti's the opportunity to say "It can't be that bad because firearm (Professionals) are selling these guns".

I think this technology should be fought tooth and nail and on all fronts by all of us.

Again, please understand that this is not directed towards Engage.

 

[armed ferret]

as long as it's not being government-mandated that we all have to have it, i have no issue with engage or anyone else offering it as an option to those who feel it's something they'd prefer to have.

sell it if you want....long as i ain't required to buy it we're cool.

(and of course even then, twouldn't be your fault at all)

 

[HappyCamper]

Andy, not sure if you're following the other (iphone gun) thread so I'll post my .02 here as well rather than retype..

Yes, there are MANY things inherently wrong with smart gun (Networked Weapons Systems) technology as viewed from a Freedom and sustaining 2A standpoint. One of the hats I wear is a technologist and strategist for implementation of advanced technologies, both for their intended uses, but also for unintended uses. The idea of implementing networked weapons systems (both larger systems but inclusive to small arms as well) in a similar manner as today's modern smart phones is something being continually worked. It started years ago and it deemed smart gun technology as a small but critical step to a larger and more encompassing effort to advanced networked weapons both for the positive benefits of the user and for the denial of access for their enemies. There are many more implications (most of which are bad for private citizens) to this in the big picture/longer time frame than most people can envision.

Without getting into large detail, it ultimately comes down to who has control over your device whether it be your smart phone or your smart gun. Where will your smart gun network? Will it work only when it has correct admission codes or only at a specific geo-location such as the range or your home? Will the .Gov be able to control the signal in case of an emergency like they would an EAS broadcast or the internet? Will hackers be able to spoof your gun signal and take control of your weapon to remotely fire it or jam it? While certain weapons for Mil/LE will would most likely have encryption, they would in effect be the ones with the guns when the switch is flipped either on small tactical operations (city blocks) or on a larger scale like Boston Marathon Bombing (city wide) - pretty much an LE wet dream. There are about a couple other dozen issues that have been explored and many plausible futures do exist for this technology to mature and be integrated, please consider that coming from the point of view of someone who has seen what lies down this path, there is more to lose in personal freedoms than there is to gain. I'm not saying we can or cannot stop the technology from being forced upon civilian small arms, but if and when it does, it will be one of the nails in the coffin if not done properly.

A further consideration is what happens to all the non-smart, non-networked weapons? A new pre-smart gun registry similar to NFA – can of worms there that I won’t get into here.

In the end, I hope those saying this is a great thing can take a peek down the road, 1 year, 5 years, 20 years and compare that to how other RF/networking technologies have gone exponential in both capability and ability to be controlled. Everyone is entitled to their opinion of what engage is doing, just make sure you have thought it all through – after all – it’s for our children

 

[KSFrostie]

I think the point is that it is a slippery slope. If Firearm shops start to carry it will soon be required. Like borelocks and safeties