Retired police officer kills fellow movie-goer over texting dispute

[spclopr8tr]

I tend to agree. It sounds like the wife was attempting to restrain her husband (hands on him) when he was shot. The retired cop may have felt his life in danger if there were verbal threats followed by an attempt to come over the seats to fulfill them.

Too many facts left out of the story and I assume the ex-cop kept his mouth shut and lawyered up as he should. It will be interesting to see what comes out in court.

Boxcab= a voice of reason. Since when can we rely on first reports from our illustrious fourth estate to be accurate or absent of any political spin? Seems the forum has tried and convicted a person based entirely on hearsay reported in the media. I agree an assessment is premature until ALL the facts are known.

Based on the meager reporting, I can see it playing out this way.
Old guy: Would you please put your phone away. It is distracting from watching the screen.
Texter: Mind your own damn business. What you gonna do about it?
Old guy: Goes to complain to theater management and gets no satisfaction. Returns to seat.
Texter: What? No one coming to your rescue? Go F yourself.
Texter continues to taunt, old guy responds, exchange turns nasty, texter tosses popcorn at old guy, and at some point and for some reason old guy fears for his safety.

Anything could have occurred based on what is reported by the "unimpeachable" eyewitnesses.

On the other hand, old guy might just be bat$#!T crazy or was simply pushed beyond his breaking point as in this example: http://www.thesmokinggun.com/documents/walmart-express-lane-rage-675432

I for one will withhold judgement for now. As we used to say in the Navy, the first reports are always wrong, and BS at the speed of light is still BS.

 

[ryan_j]

While it is against the rules to text in the theater, it is also against the rules to bring a weapon into the theater. The retired LEO was violating the rules even before the guy was texting on the cell phone. The retired LEO violated the rules as soon as he set foot in the theater with a firearm. So ironic that he was up in arms about somebody violating the rules for texting when he himself had already violated the rules.

One of my coworkers lives near that theater. Basically the branding is a "cinebistro" where you can dine and more importantly, drink alcohol. No one under 21 is allowed in it.

So if the establishment serves alcohol, you're not allowed to carry in it under Florida law.

Also, the designation "retired LEO" is important because we're constantly being told by antis that only the police and retired police should have guns. In my state (NJ) only the police and retired police can carry, because supposedly they have training and special magic powers that makes them able to handle a gun without incident.

That said, I don't want the Government to take away anyone's right to carry, but when we start dividing up rights in terms of importance and need and actually justifying it like the police unions do, then we can't agree.

 

[ryan_j]

Based on the meager reporting, I can see it playing out this way.
Old guy: Would you please put your phone away. It is distracting from watching the screen.
Texter: Mind your own damn business. What you gonna do about it?
Old guy: Goes to complain to theater management and gets no satisfaction. Returns to seat.
Texter: What? No one coming to your rescue? Go F yourself.
Texter continues to taunt, old guy responds, exchange turns nasty, texter tosses popcorn at old guy, and at some point and for some reason old guy fears for his safety.

Congratulations. You've just successfully argued against Florida's stand your ground law.

If he was being harrassed, he could have moved and avoided the situation. I know when I'm carrying, I don't escalate anything and go out of my way to avoid any potential situation. Why? Because if anything ever comes of it, I could be under extra scrutiny because I have a gun.

 

[wilcam47]

The fact that he was a retired police officer really has nothing to do with it. There are good and bad people in every profession. This guy was simply a complete douchebag.

the guy texting should have put his stupid phone away...and none of it would have happened.

Theres enough arguing on here to see how it would escalate between two people in the theatre...

 

[Benanov]

Gonna hold judgement on this one. Lies and slander are halfway around the world by the time the truth even puts its pants on.

 

[LargemouthAss]

If he was being harrassed, he could have moved and avoided the situation. I know when I'm carrying, I don't escalate anything and go out of my way to avoid any potential situation. Why? Because if anything ever comes of it, I could be under extra scrutiny because I have a gun.

Agreed. If you are carrying a concealed weapon you should avoid these situations.

If this incident went down the way it is being reported then it is a field day for the antis. The positive news reports of CCW holders get a few minutes on local news channels but are ignored by the National media, but incidents like this are on the front page of cnn.com. There are always a few bad apples in every bunch and with the recent dramatic increase of CCW holders across the country I sincerely hope that some bad apple CCW permit holders don't ruin it for the rest of us!

 

[Hit and Run]

Avoid any confrontations when carrying has always been my motto. Smile, even when he or she is an A$$.

 

[fabsroman]

Me too. Three year olds should be Face Timing since they can't spell yet.

_________________________________________________________________________________________


From the article:


How much you bet that the wife's raising of her hand was viewed as aggression by the shooter? Maybe he thought it was the guy raising his hand. I'm certainly not standing up for the guy I just doubt that he executed the deceased for texting.

Nah, he executed him for throwing popcorn. If the movement of a hand while throwing popcorn was not enough to warrant a shot being fired, then how was the wife's hand movement enough to warrant a shot being fired. I don't care if he actually thought he was in danger. The question is whether a reasonable person would have thought he was in danger.

Even going down your line of thinking, the question is did the retired LEO draw before the wife put up her hand, or did the wife put up her hand before he drew? When exactly did the gun come out? If he drew and fired in response to the wife's hand coming up to allegedly hold her husband back, he should have had enough time to figure out that it was the wife's hand.

All I know is a 43 year old man, with a 3 year old daughter, is now dead because somebody might have thought he was a threat, or somebody just wanted to shoot him dead for throwing popcorn. I know, hard to believe that somebody might shoot somebody else over texting and popcorn, without even feeling threatened. Then again, it is hard to believe why a lot of people get shot and killed nowadays over stupidity.

I have not read a witness account yet that even hints at absolving the retired LEO. Anybody post one that says Oulson had a clenched fist. Oulson lunged at the retired LEO? Oulson raised a hand other than to throw popcorn? Wonder if there is any video surveillance in the theater.

 

[N3YMY]

When I first saw this being reported today, I just couldn't believe it.

I can.

The tapestry of our society is unravelling and has been for quite sometime.

There will be a reckoning soon; it'll be a real train wreck too

 

[spclopr8tr]

Congratulations. You've just successfully argued against Florida's stand your ground law.

If he was being harrassed, he could have moved and avoided the situation. I know when I'm carrying, I don't escalate anything and go out of my way to avoid any potential situation. Why? Because if anything ever comes of it, I could be under extra scrutiny because I have a gun.

I disagree with your assessment of arguing against the FL SYGL. I don't believe, unlike in MD, there is any obligation to retreat to avoid confrontation. This isn't the Castle Doctrine. Since we DON'T know the entire story, I won't speculate further. But as someone who is well past the 50 yard line in life, I can understand why a 71 year old may be fearful of a 43 year old in terms of brute strength.

I agree though that someone carrying has an obligation (if not common sense) to back down and not allow the confrontation to become physical. I too would have gone out of my way to avoid the situation, starting with not carrying concealed into a theater that by policy and apparently by FL law (serving alcohol) precludes anyone from bringing a firearm into the theater.

 

[RightNYer]

I can.

The tapestry of our society is unravelling and has been for quite sometime.

There will be a reckoning soon; it'll be a real train wreck too

Exactly. Liberals have thrown the guard rails off of society for the past 50 years and now wonder why things are falling apart.

 

[Nokas]

Very uncivilized.

 

[gamer_jim]

I tend to agree. It sounds like the wife was attempting to restrain her husband (hands on him) when he was shot. The retired cop may have felt his life in danger if there were verbal threats followed by an attempt to come over the seats to fulfill them.

Too many facts left out of the story and I assume the ex-cop kept his mouth shut and lawyered up as he should. It will be interesting to see what comes out in court.

Yup.

The standard to shoot someone else lawfully is if a reasonable person believes their life, or someone else's is in grave and eminent threat. Some states include sexual assault and others also include private property.

It makes for a great headline to say "texter gets shot" but we really don't know what happened. Did the texter threaten and then produce a weapon to back up that threat? Starting the argument with "sir, please stop texting" doesn't necessarily mean the shooter was at fault. I hope the details come out.

Nevertheless it's a good opportunity to review what a lawful decision would be if you or I were in that situation.

 

[Rack&Roll]

Saw this news item here on MDshooters, flipped to MSNBC and sure enough, they are featuring it...

 

[PJDiesel]

The standard for someone carrying should be to WALK AWAY. Find another seat, .....leave. I bet he's wishing he exercised SOME other option at this point.

 

[ryan_j]

I disagree with your assessment of arguing against the FL SYGL. I don't believe, unlike in MD, there is any obligation to retreat to avoid confrontation.

You've misunderstood. The antis will now say that stand your ground enabled this guy to shoot. I wasn't saying you were arguing against SYG, only that your argument could be used to argue that SYG is bad policy.

Regardless of whatever laws are in place, I will ALWAYS look to walk away. ALWAYS.

People have said nasty, often racist things to me and my wife and in front of my kids too. Sometimes when I am carrying. I wouldn't pull a weapon and shoot them. I would simply walk away. Why? I believe in avoiding trouble. My ego can take a bruise. I really don't want to have to turn my whole life upside down.

 

[clandestine]

Spidey senses leads me to believe the guy who was shot is a hothead who thought he could do whatever he wanted.

As always the person who was shot was a "great person" according to family and friends.

 

[jrumann59]

Spidey senses leads me to believe the guy who was shot is a hothead who thought he could do whatever he wanted.

As always the person who was shot was a "great person" according to family and friends.

Again the detail everyone forgets age, low light since previews were playing, a lot of things can be misconstrued.

 

[PJDiesel]

Spidey senses leads me to believe the guy who was shot is a hothead who thought he could do whatever he wanted.

He can...., just not to THAT guy! He'll be a saint by tomorrow afternoon regardless of the truth.

 

[Rack&Roll]

Based on how this started and how this ended, I believe the shooter now has his choice of seats to view the screen…………………….in the day room.