MD Shooter's trust template still work?

[dghboy315]

Does Maryland_Shooter's trust template still work? Has anyone used it recently? Are there any good modifications to it?

I want to set up my own NFA trust.

I've read all the links and threads on here about it, and I know the pros and cons. I just wanted to know if there is any more current information.

thanks!

 

[Dave MP]

I would contact member Rusty Shackleford

 

[HT4]

Screwing up could mean up to 10 years + $250,000 fine per item. At a minimum, you have to do over your forms after waiting six months and getting rejected. And you still want to save $300 bucks and do it yourself? Please reconsider.

 

[Markp]

Screwing up could mean up to 10 years + $250,000 fine per item. At a minimum, you have to do over your forms after waiting six months and getting rejected. And you still want to save $300 bucks and do it yourself? Please reconsider.

Fearmonger much?

Really, come on now. There are different situations, some people would be foolish to do their own trusts due to either their lack of knowledge or the complexity of their situation. On the other hand, some people are in circumstances that makes the process far more straight forward and have sufficient knowledge to accomplish this!

I did my own trust, the ATF has vetted it, I researched it and everything is just fine with it. I also did my own divorce too, best $82 I ever spent. I also saw people paying hundreds to thousands of dollars just to be represented in uncontested hearings. Ridiculous! If you are willing to do the research, learn the process, and make the attempt... I say why not.

One point that we will all agree on though is that you shouldn't do your own trust unless you really understand the process, the implications, and are comfortable with the potential risks.

M

 

[HT4]

I will not argue about risk/reward of doing it yourself. I'm sure it works for some. That said, as a lawyer (who does not do NFA trusts), I only see things after they go horribly wrong... So maybe I'm jaded. But I have yet to meet a client who does not wish that they consulted with me first.

Also, fyi, the ATF does not vet trusts... They only check for a couple of red flags of monumental f-ups... If you did not write the trust in crayon and met about 4-5 criteria, it will pass the ATF.

 

[Justler]

I submitted my trust using Maryland_Shooter's template with some additions from other members. The biggest thing that seems to be important to add is what happens with the items in your trust should you become incapacitated or dead... Things like handing them down to specific people and having more than one backup are fine.

I didn't go to a lawyer as I have no wife or children currently, and I listed my brother and then my sister as those who would be able to take and be responsible for the items.

I also used another member's template for a letter to successees (those who will takeover your trust). It provides the details for the other trustees to carry out should you become incapacitated or dead. I submitted all of this info with my form 4 as well as a blank Schedule A (Since it's my first item). Having to have something in your trust in Maryland seems to not be a requirement. The ATF has no idea what is in your trust and technically you could start it with the first item for all they care.

 

[ColonelHurtz]

It seems to work just fine for MDShooter.
We were shooting his suppressed SBR .300 a couple of weeks ago.

 

[Lex Armarum]

One quibble.

The ATF didn't vet your trust. A lot of people think that the ATF's sign off on purchases through a trust = validity of the trust but this just isn't true. The Chief of the NFA Division flat out said to me:

"If it looks like a professional did it, we'll pass it through. If it doesn't, we'll kick it back and tell the applicant to have a professional vouch for their trust."

So... just because the ATF passes your paperwork with a DIY trust attached DOES NOT MEAN THAT YOU HAVE A VALID TRUST.

Fearmonger much?

Really, come on now. There are different situations, some people would be foolish to do their own trusts due to either their lack of knowledge or the complexity of their situation. On the other hand, some people are in circumstances that makes the process far more straight forward and have sufficient knowledge to accomplish this!

I did my own trust, the ATF has vetted it, I researched it and everything is just fine with it. I also did my own divorce too, best $82 I ever spent. I also saw people paying hundreds to thousands of dollars just to be represented in uncontested hearings. Ridiculous! If you are willing to do the research, learn the process, and make the attempt... I say why not.

One point that we will all agree on though is that you shouldn't do your own trust unless you really understand the process, the implications, and are comfortable with the potential risks.

M

 

[Lex Armarum]

I submitted my trust using Maryland_Shooter's template with some additions from other members. The biggest thing that seems to be important to add is what happens with the items in your trust should you become incapacitated or dead... Things like handing them down to specific people and having more than one backup are fine.

I didn't go to a lawyer as I have no wife or children currently, and I listed my brother and then my sister as those who would be able to take and be responsible for the items.

I also used another member's template for a letter to successees (those who will takeover your trust). It provides the details for the other trustees to carry out should you become incapacitated or dead. I submitted all of this info with my form 4 as well as a blank Schedule A (Since it's my first item). Having to have something in your trust in Maryland seems to not be a requirement. The ATF has no idea what is in your trust and technically you could start it with the first item for all they care.

It seems to work just fine for MDShooter.
We were shooting his suppressed SBR .300 a couple of weeks ago.

DIY trusts may get you through the ATF because the ATF does not review trusts for any sort of legal validity. However, from the information that I've read above, it would seem that quite a few people have no clue what they're talking about.

MDshooters trust is likely invalid in the State of Maryland. I've read it. In any event, it is insufficient in many different respects even if a court were to determine that it is valid.

One other thing for you to consider: I spent about 10-15 hrs writing a template NFA trust that takes all of the necessary considerations into account. That's time writing, researching, reading, etc. If I, as a trained professional, cannot write a trust in just a few minutes, what makes you think that an untrained person can simply whip up a trust out of thin air that is valid in accordance with State law and accounts for all of the requirements of a trust? Even, to this day, I need to review my trust yearly to ensure that it comports with State law AND I still find things in the trust that I don't like about it and have to change from time to time.

But hey, it's your ass on the line...

 

[Markp]

One quibble.

The ATF didn't vet your trust. A lot of people think that the ATF's sign off on purchases through a trust = validity of the trust but this just isn't true. The Chief of the NFA Division flat out said to me:

"If it looks like a professional did it, we'll pass it through. If it doesn't, we'll kick it back and tell the applicant to have a professional vouch for their trust."

So... just because the ATF passes your paperwork with a DIY trust attached DOES NOT MEAN THAT YOU HAVE A VALID TRUST.

Ok, that's a valid point, as the ATF does not "vet" your trust, but they do examine it at some level and will kick back obviously flawed documents. I should have been more precise in my statement. Thanks for keeping me honest.

You do need to do a fair bit of research and as Rusty correctly notes, trusts are often documents that require a fair amount of knowledge, research, and skill to execute correctly. It's more than just following a template on a website, you need to be sure of what you are doing and why.

It was not my goal to trivialize the process, but rather to note that you can do it successfully on your own. I probably would have saved money paying Rusty to do it (based on what my time is worth professionally).

 

[dghboy315]

Thanks guys. Very useful information. I really appreciate all the opinions.

I think I've decided to do it on my own. In addition to what Justler said in his comments above, I am trying to find any other weak points in MD Shooter's template. I might just start from scratch.

Another point I read was that the name should be short so SBR engraving is simpler. I also think the name should be a bit more general and less gun specific.

I'll keep the board posted on other things I find.

 

[Yoshi]

...I need to review my trust yearly to ensure that it comports with State law AND I still find things in the trust that I don't like about it and have to change from time to time.

But hey, it's your ass on the line...

Hey Rusty! If I get my trust through you, will you ensure that it remains legal throughout the years or is that my responsibility?

 

[Lex Armarum]

Hey Rusty! If I get my trust through you, will you ensure that it remains legal throughout the years or is that my responsibility?

Send me an e-mail and we'll talk.

jrobinson@robinsonlaw.biz