YES to SBR's Post 10/1/13

[bm3r]

I know this topic has been brought up multiple times.

Today, 4/24/14 I received (2) APPROVED Form 1's.

I dropped them off on 12/12/13 at MSP of Pikesville.


The details:

I purchased a Daniel Defense M4V1 in January 2013. I submitted the Form 1 on 12/12/13 to SBR it. APPROVED 3/21/14.

I purchased a Noveske stripped lower in August 2013. I also submitted this Form 1 on 12/12/13 to SBR it. APPROVED 3/21/14.


Hope this helps

 

[bm3r]

Daniel Defense OAL listed 26"

Noveske OAL listed 26"

 

[pbharvey]

Well then, there you go!

 

[bm3r]

Well then, there you go!

absolutely!!!

 

[mtel]

It'd be so much easier if they'd just spell it out in an AG's opinion letter already but this is great to hear.

Thanks for the info.

 

[Chevyman85]

How did you recieve ATF approved Form 1's only 3mo after dropping them off for CLEO sign off? Seems awful fast considering how long CLEO sign off can take and the recent problems with E-Form's if thats how you submitted them to ATF.

 

[aaronn]

I thought we all new Form 1s were GTG?

 

[Chevyman85]

I thought we all new Form 1s were GTG?

The recent debate has to do with the 29" OAL issue not SBR's as a whole.

 

[Kingjamez]

Sorry, none of this matters. Those are pre-October guns. We already knew MSP was signing off on them.

-Jim

 

[NateIU10]

Sorry, none of this matters. Those are pre-October guns. We already knew MSP was signing off on them.

-Jim

But there actually is a little insight there. A person that possessed an ALG before Oct. 1 may continue to possess an ALG. The same is true for Copycat weapons. Is this MSP saying that a pre 10/1 ALG in SBR form is still an ALG? If so, the copycat 29" OAL test cannot apply. The interesting questions get into whether, if an SBR can still be an ALG, what happens if a particular firearm meets an exemption and is not an ALG? If you have a pre 10/1 M4 AR15, and SBR it with an HBAR upper, it would not longer be an ALG, and WOULD be subject to the 29" OAL test. Right?

 

[mtel]

Sorry, none of this matters. Those are pre-October guns. We already knew MSP was signing off on them.

-Jim

It was clear MSP was signing off on form 1s submitted before 10/1. It was also clear MSP was signing off on form 1s before its 3/20 advisory.

However, I do like seeing evidence of how pre-10/1 receivers are being treated post-advisory re: copycat features, especially for folks who have trusts and can’t use MSP as a litmus test.

 

[bm3r]

It'd be so much easier if they'd just spell it out in an AG's opinion letter already but this is great to hear.

Thanks for the info.

How did you recieve ATF approved Form 1's only 3mo after dropping them off for CLEO sign off? Seems awful fast considering how long CLEO sign off can take and the recent problems with E-Form's if thats how you submitted them to ATF.

MSP approval, not ATF approval yet. Apparently State trumps Federal in this matter. Specifically those who form 4 their pre 10/1/13 lowers via atfonline.gov with a trust. Some questioned if we were gtg with no word from MSP.

I thought we all new Form 1s were GTG?

I did ask this question multiple times but never got a 100% answer

The recent debate has to do with the 29" OAL issue not SBR's as a whole.

Correct! I also posted my OAL's too

 

[Jack]

well if thats the case, you are allowed under NFA to

put whatever length barrel you want on A SB anything. They like to be notified of the change of barrel length but who does actually notify them. I imagine .001 of 1% of all approvals. In any event if you drop the OAL is the MSP really coming to get you?

 

[Russ D]

So bottom line is that I can SBR my lowers that i purchased pre 2013 with no problems?

 

[swinokur]

Via a Form 1. Doing it on a Form 4 after 10-1 would require the SBR to be on the handgun roster and be > 29" OAL if I read all this correctly.

 

[ELCAM]

Just got a call back from Ted (one of the examiners) at the NFA. Trying to SBR my lower(purchased prior to 10/1/2013) into a 28.5" 300 Blackout via Form 1 e-filed through a Trust(submitted 12/2 and should have been back by now). He told me it is being held up because the NFA branch doesn't understand the Maryland law. He asked me I could submit any clarification of the law that could help (which I was at a loss for words on how to do this). All I told him that I could do was sent him a copy of the bill of sale dated 7/5/2013 and the MSP 77-R also dated prior to 10/1/2013.

This is not good news....I don't think....I told him that the MSP has been signing off individual form 1's and he was going to research that. If anybody has a redacted(remove PII and serials) recently signed Form 1 from the MSP for an SBR less that 29" I would love to send that to them to expedite the process?

thanks,
ELcam

 

[mtel]

I would've posted mine if I had a recent approval.

It's terrible that nothing has been clarified, in writing, about copycat applicability (if any) to currently SBR'ing pre-10/1 lowers.

We're left reading tea leaves like the OP's approvals. Maybe OP will give you hand.

 

[tc617]

Just got a call back from Ted (one of the examiners) at the NFA. Trying to SBR my lower(purchased prior to 10/1/2013) into a 28.5" 300 Blackout via Form 1 e-filed through a Trust(submitted 12/2 and should have been back by now). He told me it is being held up because the NFA branch doesn't understand the Maryland law. He asked me I could submit any clarification of the law that could help (which I was at a loss for words on how to do this). All I told him that I could do was sent him a copy of the bill of sale dated 7/5/2013 and the MSP 77-R also dated prior to 10/1/2013.

This is not good news....I don't think....I told him that the MSP has been signing off individual form 1's and he was going to research that. If anybody has a redacted(remove PII and serials) recently signed Form 1 from the MSP for an SBR less that 29" I would love to send that to them to expedite the process?

thanks,
ELcam

You are not the only one that is experiencing this problem with the NFA branch. I got a call from a good friend of mine today with news that 7 of his post October 1 Form 1's were disapproved by the ATF saying that copycat rules apply to receivers purchased prior to October 1.

http://www.mdshooters.com/showpost.php?p=3181678&postcount=10

CONFIRMATION

As of this past weekend I received back MULTIPLE F1's (Eforms) as Disapproved. All were filed post 10/1...all were being constructed from lowers and weapons owned legally PRE10/1. Included with the Disapproval was a conversation with the NFA Examiner discussing the specific documentation to accompany my Re-submission of the F1's. I was given the excerpt from SB-281 explaining "copycat weapons" and asked to provide documentation in the form of a "memo" or statement to the affect that the completed weapon would not fall into that category.
Given the MSP Licensing Division statement dated 3/20/2014 which expressly covers the SBR and SBS weapons this is not good. It appears that the NFA branch is now attempting like many on this board, the firearms community and our legislators to attempt to interpret regulations which were expressly designed to not be finite in the first place. I consider this a major issue not just for my own waste of time but for the fact that the documents were drawn with the intent of confusion and thus have been successful. I always considered the NFA to be the final word on Form 1 applications....they certainly have no issues with accepting the checks and handing out the stamps all those years. If they intend to defer to state interpretation of firearms and firearm traits it seems to me that the NFA as a whole would become obsolete given there is already mass inconsistency just in terminology. This also leaves open the fact that any state could sign in legal ownership and construction of a post-86 MG.....oh what a tangled web.

 

[tc617]

But there actually is a little insight there. A person that possessed an ALG before Oct. 1 may continue to possess an ALG. The same is true for Copycat weapons. Is this MSP saying that a pre 10/1 ALG in SBR form is still an ALG? If so, the copycat 29" OAL test cannot apply. The interesting questions get into whether, if an SBR can still be an ALG, what happens if a particular firearm meets an exemption and is not an ALG? If you have a pre 10/1 M4 AR15, and SBR it with an HBAR upper, it would not longer be an ALG, and WOULD be subject to the 29" OAL test. Right?

Can you give me you opinion on the post from Blueclawz? These are pre-Oct 1 receivers submitted on post Oct 1 Form 1s. The ATF is saying that copycat applies to SBR's less than 29" - I spoke to him today to confirm the <29" length of the SBRs that were disapproved.

 

[deesly1]

I F@cking Hate This State! How in the world are they going to come down on pre-banned lowers! Maryland has gone too far...This is not my original state and it will not be where I live out the rest of my life. This is what happens when liberals control things!!