Why is MSP acting crazy???

[Clovis]

Fight one fight at a time...

we have to win in court before we can win in court ...

Toss in some coin if you can...

Help us help you MSI

Agreed. Now that I don't feel the need to keep buying firearms, the extra cash is going to lawsuits and political campaigns.

 

[Mr H]

Agreed. Now that I don't feel the need to keep buying firearms, the extra cash is going to lawsuits and political campaigns.

Thank you.

Share the love.

 

[Mdfan]

This conversation has me thinking. I purchased a new AR and took possession around July 10, on an 8 day release. Today, at MSP I sold it to someone (ie did the paperwork, I still possess the gun). Plan to release to him next weekend. I have no idea if my original background is complete or not- how would I even know? Should I be doing something else to document the sale?

 

[mac1_131]

don't think so, they will take it from there

if the guy turns out bad they will go get it

you should be off the hook for it

 

[Mdfan]

That makes sense to me. They know who bought it, so even if I didnt pass (I will/would) I wouldnt possess it anyways.

 

[tc617]

Licensing Division told me that there can not be two pending applications for the same firearm/serial number. Also as far as MSP is concerned the firearm is not legally yours to sell until the background check has been completed......

I was interested in transferring a lower to friend,with the only possible route being canceling the original 77r and filling out new paperwork through the dealer. Making it as if the lower never belonged to me.

Would I be ok to just do the person to person transfer and see what happens?

If a handgun is released on the 8th day, how and when would the buyer know when the 77r came back to the FFL not disapproved?... Call the FFL every few days?

I've gifted handguns that I have purchased in early July and I am almost certain that the 77r are still pending on these firearms.

 

[gmkoh]

Is it spelled out anywhere when the clock starts ticking on the 30 day mark? Is it when an application is initiated, or when you have completed the final requirement for the HQL?

Maryland being the way it is, I imagine it's upon completion of the requirements...like the 30 days between receiving a regulated weapon without DC status.

While this issue was not addressed at Monday's hearing, I can see no interpretation other than the 30 days start when all requirements are met and the application is sent to the state police. Otherwise how else can they be "responsible" for completion of the background check in 30 days if for example it take 45 days to get the training, do the single round live fire and make the drive from Garrett county to Cumberland to be fingerprinted (the closest electronic fingerprint service to western MD per testimony).

So unless you are exempt from the training requirement, then it will be longer than 30 days for someone to get the license.

A comment on training exempt: the MSP testified that ownership of ANY regulated firearm exempts you from the training requirement- even those not registered in MD (for example, an AR that you have had pre 1994 or bought legally out of state ). How you show that, or prove it, I don't know- maybe you need to list it on the HQL application.

Also, there is no provision in the regs for what happens if the HQL is not issued in 30 days. No automatic issue, no penalty for the MSP- so apparently it would be legal for the MSP to never issue a single HQL in MD (until challenged in court).

On the new 77R there is a field for your SSN- it does NOT say optional, also for retired military, to be exempt from the HQL requiremnt, they are required to list the ID number of thier retired ID card- unless that has recently been changed, the ID number on my DD form 2 is my SSN. The form has a statement that failure to complete any field can result in a disapproval. Federal Law states that the SSN cannot be required, and to do so is in violation of federal privacy laws (per uncontradicted testimony on the 23rd).
The MSP however several times denied that the SSN was required in the hearing. (???).

 

[Hopalong]

Fight one fight at a time...

we have to win in court before we can win in court ...

Toss in some coin if you can...

Help us help you MSI

I filed a lawsuit on yer lawsuit so you can win while you win?

 

[esqappellate]

Read this

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=us&vol=502&invol=21

Trick question, right? They are acting crazy cuz they *are* crazy. BTW, the principles set for in Melo have been around for a long time (I do this stuff for a living). Here is a more recent case against LEOs for overstepping their bounds vis a vis drivers. A really good primer for you non-lawyers curious about personal liability under 1983 and qualified immunity.

 

[Bob A]

Question: If the actions were taken by the state General Assembly to deliberately deprive me of my rights as enumerated in the Bill of Rights, can those who voted to do so be held personally responsible, and chastised somehow? How sweet that would be, to extract legal fees and damages from the likes of Chairman Frosh.

I suppose not, but at least let me enjoy the idea for a while before slapping me with reality.

 

[esqappellate]

Question: If the actions were taken by the state General Assembly to deliberately deprive me of my rights as enumerated in the Bill of Rights, can those who voted to do so be held personally responsible, and chastised somehow? How sweet that would be, to extract legal fees and damages from the likes of Chairman Frosh.

I suppose not, but at least let me enjoy the idea for a while before slapping me with reality.

sorry, not

 

[Old Salty Dog]

On the new 77R there is a field for your SSN- it does NOT say optional, also for retired military, to be exempt from the HQL requiremnt, they are required to list the ID number of thier retired ID card- unless that has recently been changed, the ID number on my DD form 2 is my SSN. The form has a statement that failure to complete any field can result in a disapproval. Federal Law states that the SSN cannot be required, and to do so is in violation of federal privacy laws (per uncontradicted testimony on the 23rd).
The MSP however several times denied that the SSN was required in the hearing. (???).

DoD is getting rid of the SSN on all of it's ID cards. Your next one won't have it. If you're already past the Medicare enrollment drill, go get a new ID.

 

[j_h_smith]

Ill read the case in a bit but side note.

I bought a beretta on 7/16/12 and want to sell it to help a woman out. I don't need the gun I just wanted a beretta to cerekote. Its now 9/26/13 and they haven't even looked at my app. I called and spoke to a civilian worker today who not only cut me off multiple times while taking but due to that was giving me wrong information because she wasn't understanding my question due to not letting me finish.

I deal with upset idiots everyday so I'm quite the patient man, today I had to stop her. "Ma'am, I'm a sworn officer and I understand what your saying however you keep interrupting me and giving me information that couldn't be more worthless. Please either stop talking so I can actually explain or transfer me to your supervisor" she shut up. But I can't sell the gun I bought 2 months ago

Yes you can. I bought a Glock from a forum member last month and he had not received the official paperwork back from when HE BOUGHT IT. The trooper at the barracks did a serial number check and found that the seller WAS NOT the owner on record. However, he brought his 77R which showed he had legally taken possession of it after the 7 day waiting period.

The trooper finished the paperwork and all went well.

HTH,
Jim Smith

 

[Inigoes]

Yes you can. I bought a Glock from a forum member last month and he had not received the official paperwork back from when HE BOUGHT IT. The trooper at the barracks did a serial number check and found that the seller WAS NOT the owner on record. However, he brought his 77R which showed he had legally taken possession of it after the 7 day waiting period.

The trooper finished the paperwork and all went well.

HTH,
Jim Smith

That is an excellent example why the current system is unconstitutional.

It's supposed to be recordation not registration.

 

[jvegas]

Ill read the case in a bit but side note.

I bought a beretta on 7/16/12 and want to sell it to help a woman out. I don't need the gun I just wanted a beretta to cerekote. Its now 9/26/13 and they haven't even looked at my app. I called and spoke to a civilian worker today who not only cut me off multiple times while taking but due to that was giving me wrong information because she wasn't understanding my question due to not letting me finish.

I deal with upset idiots everyday so I'm quite the patient man, today I had to stop her. "Ma'am, I'm a sworn officer and I understand what your saying however you keep interrupting me and giving me information that couldn't be more worthless. Please either stop talking so I can actually explain or transfer me to your supervisor" she shut up. But I can't sell the gun I bought 2 months ago

must be the same receptionist that I spoke to yesterday regarding the purchase order and someone being 20 at this time (turns 21 on Oct 1). she cut me off 10 times and kept telling me to look at the MSP FAQ. The FAQ does not address my specific question, yet she continued to speak over me and talk about the FAQ. I finally hung up on her and went to the MSP website, only to discover that the FAQ page was down.