want wife and kids to try shotgunning

[hammer67]

I wrote that last reply a while ago, but it just got sent.

Thanks all for the advice and offers. I have found 7/8 oz 20 gauge, min Dram and those combined with semi I think would be good to try first.

Hunterjjd-what is LOP of those 1100 and 11-87 20 gauge?

fabsroman-A391 20 gauge is what PG rents. Although they didn't mention youth models. said the LOP was about 14". What is LOP on your 391?

I have a friends 410 that I would have them try, but the LOP is 14" and too hard for them to hold. My dad had a 410, but I gave it to my sister for her kids. Not sure what LOP was. Where I grew up (southwestern PA), we could walk out our door and shoot in the yard. Sure wish I could still do that!

 

[fabsroman]

I wrote that last reply a while ago, but it just got sent.

Thanks all for the advice and offers. I have found 7/8 oz 20 gauge, min Dram and those combined with semi I think would be good to try first.

Hunterjjd-what is LOP of those 1100 and 11-87 20 gauge?

fabsroman-A391 20 gauge is what PG rents. Although they didn't mention youth models. said the LOP was about 14". What is LOP on your 391?

I have a friends 410 that I would have them try, but the LOP is 14" and too hard for them to hold. My dad had a 410, but I gave it to my sister for her kids. Not sure what LOP was. Where I grew up (southwestern PA), we could walk out our door and shoot in the yard. Sure wish I could still do that!

LOP is 13.75" with a 1" recoil pad on the gun, but I have a harder plastic buttplate for it that will make LOP around 13.25". Barrel length is 21". Weight of the gun is 5.85 pounds. My sisters have shot it at PG and ShallNotInfringe has used it a couple of times at CCGC. Nobody has ever said anything about barrel length.

 

[fabsroman]

I like the 12 gauge and light loads too.

Taking a bunch of greenhorns to a sporting clay course without any previous clay shooting experience is going to be rough unless you spend a lot of your targets at an easy station.

Id at least talk to a friend with a big backyard to setup a thrower and throw the same target over and over while standing in the same spot to see if they even have fun with that

I think the best bet to start them out would be on trap, from the middle station, with the trap set to throw only straight away targets. Willing to bet that PG and CCGC would do this for the OP if he calls and asks in advance about it.

 

[Pinecone]

A new shooter is barely going to hit crap anyway. Let them start with a .410 just to practice gun mount, gun swing, pulling the trigger, and getting used to recoil.

Then you are teaching them wrong.

With good instruction and the proper starting presentation, a new shooter can, and SHOULD hit their first target or so.

If they do not hit any targets, they will likely not enjoy the experience.

 

[Pinecone]

I like the 12 gauge and light loads too.

Taking a bunch of greenhorns to a sporting clay course without any previous clay shooting experience is going to be rough unless you spend a lot of your targets at an easy station.

Id at least talk to a friend with a big backyard to setup a thrower and throw the same target over and over while standing in the same spot to see if they even have fun with that

This is why PG has a special station for teaching.

The easiest target to hit, and the one recommended for the first shots is an incoming target. And hitting targets gets the student very interested. Missing is no fun.

But I always recommend, for first timers, use a trained and certified instructor. They will make sure the new person learns the fundamentals properly, and that they hit targets and have fun.

And that do not shoot too much, so they are too sore the next day.

 

[Pinecone]

Typically the rules on barrel length are so they can prevent the tacticool people from showing up with an 18" barrel to try to shoot trap.

If it is a sporting shotgun, with people who seem to know what they are doing, they will most likely not notice or ignore it.

 

[fabsroman]

Then you are teaching them wrong.

With good instruction and the proper starting presentation, a new shooter can, and SHOULD hit their first target or so.

If they do not hit any targets, they will likely not enjoy the experience.

I usually start them out on a soda can in the middle of a field somewhere, versus on moving targets. Just like I plan on starting a new driver out in a parking lot getting them used to the controls on the vehicle. Personally, I think starting a new shooter off at a clays range, shooting at new targets, is tough. They have to learn about gun safety, gun mount, gun operation, and tracking the target.

So, my advice to the OP would be to take these new shooters to a field, shake up a couple soda cans, and see if they can hit a stationary target with a shotgun. Granted, somewhat tough to do here in HoCo, but there might be some places in Carroll. It sucks not to have access to a field, and it sucks even more not to be able to discharge a firearm in HoCo unless one is hunting or under one of the other very limited circumstances.

As far as shooting not being fun unless people break stuff, I guess we have differing opinions on that. When I was a kid, I was always chomping at the bit to go hunting and shooting. Initially, I could not hit a thing, but it was still fun for me. Of course, I could be an anomaly. My brothers seemed to be the same way. Nowadays though, they don't like going hunting unless they are guaranteed they will be shooting. They much prefer guaranteed shooting at clay targets to the possibility of shooting at birds.

 

[hammer67]

yeh, thats why I mentioned growing up in rural PA. so easy to just go in yard and shoot. I don't think AGC will let you shoot shotgun at cans, or anything other than the patterning board. hunterjjd mentioned he had place to shoot. I guess not in Howard County

diI ordered some light 20 and 12 gauge shells. I may wait till we go to my mom's in PA. Lock Raven looks nice for $40 to get them started at one of their youth clincs. They don't start till April.

I was at the new Dick's on 40 near 29 (at old Giant location) looking at ammo and looked at guns. they had a gun that I think would be great for them. 20 guage semi, 26" barrel, synthetic stock, light, just over 12" LOP with a recoil pad. $399. T&R imports. looked it up. They import guns from Turkey. This particular one made by Sarsilmaz. I know that the Weatherby SA-08 is Turkish made and it seems to have good reviews. I don't intend to buy it, but the specs seem perfect for youth. Like the A391 fabroman mentioned, but with much short LOP.

Did you go to PG today fabroman? beautiful day. I would have gone but have some construction going on and needed to be home.

 

[fabsroman]

yeh, thats why I mentioned growing up in rural PA. so easy to just go in yard and shoot. I don't think AGC will let you shoot shotgun at cans, or anything other than the patterning board. hunterjjd mentioned he had place to shoot. I guess not in Howard County

diI ordered some light 20 and 12 gauge shells. I may wait till we go to my mom's in PA. Lock Raven looks nice for $40 to get them started at one of their youth clincs. They don't start till April.

I was at the new Dick's on 40 near 29 (at old Giant location) looking at ammo and looked at guns. they had a gun that I think would be great for them. 20 guage semi, 26" barrel, synthetic stock, light, just over 12" LOP with a recoil pad. $399. T&R imports. looked it up. They import guns from Turkey. This particular one made by Sarsilmaz. I know that the Weatherby SA-08 is Turkish made and it seems to have good reviews. I don't intend to buy it, but the specs seem perfect for youth. Like the A391 fabroman mentioned, but with much short LOP.

Did you go to PG today fabroman? beautiful day. I would have gone but have some construction going on and needed to be home.

Nope, I am stuck behind the computer working today. The impetus for shooting this weekend was started by my brothers talking to my dad about it last weekend. One brother has the Dino show at the DC armory on his calendar today and I have professional photos on my calendar for noon tomorrow. So, I got to enjoy the weather today when my 8 and 5 year old asked me to go outside with them and kick the soccer ball around. Almost had myself a heart attack. Three steps and I was breathing hard. I am way too out of shape for my liking.

By the way, I was somewhat surprised to see that the LOP on that youth Beretta is 13.5". Then again, the LOP on my adult size Berettas is 14.25", so I guess the youth model is shorter. Just not short enough for my son. meant to send out the 28 gauge to get the stock cut down over the summer, but never got around to it. Going to have to try to get that taken care of this spring. Think I am going to set it up for something around 12.5" to 14" for LOP.

 

[Sirex]

I wrote that last reply a while ago, but it just got sent.

Thanks all for the advice and offers. I have found 7/8 oz 20 gauge, min Dram and those combined with semi I think would be good to try first.

Hunterjjd-what is LOP of those 1100 and 11-87 20 gauge?

fabsroman-A391 20 gauge is what PG rents. Although they didn't mention youth models. said the LOP was about 14". What is LOP on your 391?

I have a friends 410 that I would have them try, but the LOP is 14" and too hard for them to hold. My dad had a 410, but I gave it to my sister for her kids. Not sure what LOP was. Where I grew up (southwestern PA), we could walk out our door and shoot in the yard. Sure wish I could still do that!

I have a bantam .410 Mossberg 500e for my wife and daughter to shoot, if you ever want to test out in Taneytown when it warms up.

 

[Pinecone]

I disagree. With the proper targets, a first timer can hit moving targets.

And shooting a stationary target builds improper habits for shotgun shooting.

I used to teach at the Ladies Charity Classic events. We wold take women who had never held any gun, shooting all sorts of clays targets in one session. And with a nice fat incomer, most hit their first ever target, and they were HOOKED.

Yes, you have to teach gun handling and safety, but you do that anyway.

 

[PapiBarcelona]

Yeah, I've always been a hillybillay farm shooter so I'm too stupid to learn proper technique. LOL

Most people from my redneck clique who just wanted to shoot clays aren't the type to travel far and pay anything to learn proper so setting up throwers and bullshittin' on the farm was the experience until they wanted to come again a year later or so.

 

[Pinecone]

I remember on Ladies Charity Classic at PG. They had enough instructors, that they put one of us a each station to help the ladies, if needed. But since PG didn't close, they send men out over the same course, with a different color score sheet.

My station was all rabbits. 6 of them, I forget if following or report pairs.

So this group of guys show up, and the sees the targets and says, just mark me down for 0, I can't hit rabbit targets. So I offer to give him some coaching. So I give him some pointers. And he cleans the station, 6 of 6.

So I hand him one of my instructor business cards, and he gives me a look like, "instructor, I don't need no stinkin' instructor." I just think yeah, and in a couple of minutes I had you clean a station where you figured you would miss all the targets. YOU need an instructor.

Ladies get it, they learn from instructors. Men think they can it without any instruction.

And they are wrong. I have taught, or currently teach, shooting and performance driving. And guess what guys, YOU DO NOT KNOW HOW TO DO IT.

 

[Redcobra]

I remember on Ladies Charity Classic at PG. They had enough instructors, that they put one of us a each station to help the ladies, if needed. But since PG didn't close, they send men out over the same course, with a different color score sheet.

My station was all rabbits. 6 of them, I forget if following or report pairs.

So this group of guys show up, and the sees the targets and says, just mark me down for 0, I can't hit rabbit targets. So I offer to give him some coaching. So I give him some pointers. And he cleans the station, 6 of 6.

So I hand him one of my instructor business cards, and he gives me a look like, "instructor, I don't need no stinkin' instructor." I just think yeah, and in a couple of minutes I had you clean a station where you figured you would miss all the targets. YOU need an instructor.

Ladies get it, they learn from instructors. Men think they can it without any instruction.

And they are wrong. I have taught, or currently teach, shooting and performance driving. And guess what guys, YOU DO NOT KNOW HOW TO DO IT.

Similar experiences when I was teaching at Loch Raven. Some simple instruction will greatly increase your skill and fun factor of the games.

 

[fabsroman]

I remember on Ladies Charity Classic at PG. They had enough instructors, that they put one of us a each station to help the ladies, if needed. But since PG didn't close, they send men out over the same course, with a different color score sheet.

My station was all rabbits. 6 of them, I forget if following or report pairs.

So this group of guys show up, and the sees the targets and says, just mark me down for 0, I can't hit rabbit targets. So I offer to give him some coaching. So I give him some pointers. And he cleans the station, 6 of 6.

So I hand him one of my instructor business cards, and he gives me a look like, "instructor, I don't need no stinkin' instructor." I just think yeah, and in a couple of minutes I had you clean a station where you figured you would miss all the targets. YOU need an instructor.

Ladies get it, they learn from instructors. Men think they can it without any instruction.

And they are wrong. I have taught, or currently teach, shooting and performance driving. And guess what guys, YOU DO NOT KNOW HOW TO DO IT.

Yeah, NONE of us know how to do it. Only you. Me, I teach common sense, and the first thing I teach is that broad blanket statements like "YOU DO NOT KNOW HOT TO DO IT" are usually FALSE.

Did you see the guy shoot the station before you gave him instruction? Maybe he was just kidding with his buddies about the difficulty of the rabbit station and he usually breaks 4 to 5, and with a little instruction from you and a little luck from the rabbit gods, he was able to break all 6 that day. Guess we will never know.

 

[PapiBarcelona]

It all depends on what your shtick is. I was able to shoot weeknight 5 stands and our crew snuck out half day 100 target courses all around pretty much every weekend for a long while.

Seems like we all got busy and these days everyone else and myself can coordinate maybe one day every two months to plan a good trip with good company.

At my height of weekly shooting I shot a personal best of 84 percent at a 100 target course but was usually 70 to 80 percent with the occasional 60ish score. With some help I'd love to be able to nail a few problem targets for me but I don't shoot clays enough now or care about the score these days. I go for the laughs and company I don't get to see nearly as often

Id be lucky to break 60 targets if I went out tomorrow. LOL

 

[Pinecone]

Similar experiences when I was teaching at Loch Raven. Some simple instruction will greatly increase your skill and fun factor of the games.

And most male shooters will not get any instruction.

 

[Pinecone]

Yeah, NONE of us know how to do it. Only you. Me, I teach common sense, and the first thing I teach is that broad blanket statements like "YOU DO NOT KNOW HOT TO DO IT" are usually FALSE.

Did you see the guy shoot the station before you gave him instruction? Maybe he was just kidding with his buddies about the difficulty of the rabbit station and he usually breaks 4 to 5, and with a little instruction from you and a little luck from the rabbit gods, he was able to break all 6 that day. Guess we will never know.

No, I am not the only one who knows how to do it. But trained instructors DO know more than most shooters.

And many shooters, starting with rifle or pistol, really don't know what they are doing.

But then again, many shooters believe that they can instruct also.

 

[PapiBarcelona]

No, I am not the only one who knows how to do it. But trained instructors DO know more than most shooters.

And many shooters, starting with rifle or pistol, really don't know what they are doing.

But then again, many shooters believe that they can instruct also.

"Knows how to do it" in relation to what? Score?

I totally get the instructions thing for complete newbies.

My dirt farming self can muster out a 70ish percent at recreational weekend clubs like Hopewell, Oxford, Hopkins with going every weekend.

How well do you shoot? Let's say you shoot 80, and you charge what? $50/hour?

For me and my very infrequent recreational clay shooting experience I'd rather just not knowingly with 10 targets less than an "instructors" average do what I do and put the money towards a round of 100 targets and lunch. Does that make sense?

 

[Pinecone]

Knowing how to start with fundamentals of shooting a shotgun. To build off of.

And even if you are shooting 70%, you might be making it harder on yourself.

Or maybe you have everything in order. But one or two presentations cause you problems.

Or it may be your gun fit is slightly off. Or you don't have a fully dominant eye, that causes issues with some shots.

I no longer instruct. But there are good instructors out there. I would make sure they are at least NSCA Level 1 certified. Try an hour, and who knows, you might find it worthwhile and help your shooting.

As for what score an instructor shoots, they need to shoot reasonably well, but more importantly, they need to be able to see and correct issues.