Walther p38 question

[Bublar]

So, I just received my FFL in the mail this week. Instead of buying the typical Mosin as my first, I've been eyeing a Walther p38 during my wait. That said, let me set the record straight. I'm by no means an "expert" in C&R. I am just entering the C&R world and would like some feedback.

As I understand it, the three manufacturer versions available are: AC, BYF, CYQ. From what I've researched the AC was manufactured in the Walther plant, the BYF in the Mauser plant and the CYQ in the Spreewerk plant. Now, from a production standpoint, here are the stats as I understand them. Please correct me if I'm wrong:

AC produced 584k
BYF produced 323k
CYQ produced 283k

Now for the questions...which one do you believe to be the most collectible? I assume the CYQ? What I mean is, what will most likely be the most valuable down the road? I am not buying this firearm as a "money maker", but I would like to know which is likely to hold its value the most. This gun wont ever be sold, but i dont want to have any regrets on my purchase down the road. I will end up shooting this occasionally, but it will most likely live in the safe. That said, I'm also mindful of the steel slide issues that occur with this model (cracking).

Another important thing to me is any nazi markings. I'm really into history and would like to own a true WWII era firearms that did have a nazi eagle marking. Have any of you ordered from J&R and if so, do they have have the military swastika marking or the civilian proof for all these versions?

I know this was rather long winded, but I value the input from everyone on this forum. Thanks in advance for your perspective and feedback.

 

[somd_mustangs]

The WWII era manufacturers are as you indicated. The biggest things affecting value will be the classics:
1) Condition - original finish, bore, etc The difference between a 90% gun and a 98% gun can be very large. Get at least a 90% gun.
2) All matching S/N on frame, slide, barrel and internal locking block
3) No import marks

Spreewerk guns have traditionally been the least valuable due to their rougher finish and supposedly poor construction. But they are actually built to spec and work just fine, and have started to catch up. Within each manufacturer there are a wide variety of values. An early BYF42 will be worth considerably more than a typical BYF44 in the same condition, for instance. A Police Eagle/F BYF44 might be 5 times the cost of a regular production BYF44. Be prepared to spend $700-800 or so for a nice original, matching gun at a minimum. But with patience deals can still be had. All correct P.38's with the AC, BYF, or CYQ codes will have the Waffenampt "Nazi" markings (except the MOD HP's but that's another story), typically on left frame, 3 on right side of slide. There are literally hundreds of variations with these pistols. If you're looking for a pistol with collector value you can shoot, remember most of the suppliers are offering guns with import marks. Nothing wrong with that for a shooter but kills the collector value.

Check out the P38 Forum, lots of good info.

 

[edhallor]

The WWII era manufacturers are as you indicated. The biggest things affecting value will be the classics:
1) Condition - original finish, bore, etc The difference between a 90% gun and a 98% gun can be very large. Get at least a 90% gun.
2) All matching S/N on frame, slide, barrel and internal locking block
3) No import marks

.

Check out the P38 Forum, lots of good info.

Hard to find a really Prime Pistol, and you will pay a preamum price. I have several, the best was a Bring Back, although it was not up to par with the Imports I purchased. I even purchased a P1.
Be careful about who you buy from, Century is a large Importer and a lot of Dealers buy from them, folks like Aim, I've seen a lot of Pistols at Gun Shows where the Import was sanded out and covered in cold blue, insist on inspecting the pistol in sunlight, if the seller balks, walk away.

Back to Century I just purchased a Prime P38 from them, everything you could want, 1939, all matching, looks like an unfired Pistol? However in over compliance with ATF Century stamped thier CAI on the Right side of the Frame looks about 1/8 inch deep, must have used a 10 pound Maul to strike it. The Pistol is an absolute gem of a shooter but Century Destroyed the collectability with the obnoxious CAI. this was an $800 Pistol.

I can only suggest you buy from someone you know, Gunbroker, Auction Arms and others have good pistols come up from time to time but it's still a roll of the dice.

Call the seller or Dealer and make sure you have a firm agreement to send the Pistol Back if it was misrepresented, ask for as many picturs as possible, never buy outside the Auction site, all have an arbutration policy where you can get your money back, although it's a long bitch to go through.

Buy local if possible, if your not a die hard collector and just want a good shooter buy from one of the Importers. Although Century goes overboard with the Import mark they sell good reliable guns, even the mid and lower grades and will only set you back a few hundred and they are quick to allow returns and refunds, although you will eat the postage both ways.

If you don't want to get in too deep on your first buy pick one up from century in the fair to good range, if you go that way call and ask for Josh, pay the extra $10-$25 best pick. Never a guarentee but he is a good guy and will go out of his way to try to get you what you want, They will not look through a case of Pistols but will pick the best of the first 5-10 guns and send you the best pick.

If it's a Collectors Weapon you have your heart set on make sure Mommy don't see the Bank Statement when it comes in.

Good Luck, chances are your C&R will pay for itself on your first buy.

Be carefull things can get expensive quickly with a C&R, as for me I would rather buy One Prime Weapon than spend the same money on ten clunkers. To get started I would send a copy of my FFL out to all the major Dealers, they will keep it on file, open up the wholesale prices to you when you sign into thier Sites, send you emails when they have specials, etc. All you need to do then is pick a weapon, call them and UPS will be knocking on your door in a few days with your Weapon and the case of 1150 rounds of Ammo you purchased to go with it, hell if you got the Bucks there are even some Full Autos you are eligable for, although there are a few additional ATF hoops you need to go through if you go that way. Hell ain't America a great place where you can make a phone call and have a semi Auto Pistol delivered to your door, no questions asked. Do however log it in your required ATF Log Book and make sure the Weapon in on the Maryland Roster and it does not violate any local Laws.

I for one do not believe local law can violate Federal law, but it's not worth the hassle. I'll wait for that to go through the Courts and have no desire to be a test case.

Guys I know I went way beyond what the OP asked, but after that last Bud my fingers would just not stop, bang away I got it coming.

Enjoy
Eddie O

 

[mawkie]

My advice, since you're more interested in a collector's piece, would be to look for a bring back example. If you can get one with a proper holster even better. Budget to spend north of $750. I would pass on a mismatch as a collector, there are enough matching examples available.
What model, manuf. and year to look for? Plenty of variations here to choose from. Perhaps you might want to focus more on condition at first. You can't go wrong purchasing an example in the best condition that your budget can afford. Otherwise my best advice would be to purchase a good reference book and read. Gather as much knowledge as possible. $50 spent on knowledge can pay you back many times over down the road.
Good luck on the hunt!

 

[Tod]

I suggest you check out joesalter.com, he usually has a good selection and researches there history. I know him personally and he is super knowledgable, above board and fair on his prices.

 

[mgbill]

Go to p38forum.com. Excellent information and you can find P.38s for sale in the forum.

 

[Bublar]

Thanks everyone for the great information. I'll check out all the sources mentioned.

 

[Threeband]

That was a great post. Thanks for taking the trouble to write all that.



However,

...
... Do however log it in your required ATF Log Book and make sure the Weapon in on the Maryland Roster and it does not violate any local Laws.

...

The Roster only applies to handguns made since 1985, which means almost all C&Rs are exempt. That's just as well, because I'll bet most older out-of-production/collectible guns aren't on the list. Ruby pistols? The Velo-Dog? No Lugers, No Browning 1903...


This issue just arose the other day, when AIM initially refused to sell the non-C&R CZ70s in Maryland. Someone here got in touch with them, and straightened them out. AIM very graciously made a correction, which speaks well for their professionalism and good customer service.

Yeah WTF, anyone know why AIM won't sell these to MD?

Because they are not on the Handgun Roster. The ironic thing is they don't have to be because they quit making them pre 85. Aim doesn't see this due to Md.'s complicated gun laws so they are just covering their ass.

Here's the scoop: (I also asked them to correct their web page.)

From: AIM Surplus (sales@aimsurplus.com)
Sent: Fri 6/07/13 4:51 PM

You're correct, our apologies.

Thanks,

Stephen


On Fri, Jun 7, 2013 at 4:50 PM:

I just got an email on your new in stock items and noticed that you say no sales to MD for the CZ 70.
This gun is legal here in MD and has been sold here in the past.
If you are using the MD State Police Handgun Roster for reference - please note that ANY GUN MADE PRIOR to January 1,1985 is EXEMPT from the roster and you probably won't see them. For some unknown reason, some exempt guns have been listed needlessly.

Agreed that the gun laws here are pretty bizarre, but please don't put any further unwarranted restrictions on gun sales to your MD customers.
thanks.

 

[edhallor]

Agree, sometimes Aim and others will sell to me other times not, I mention the Roster because as noted some C&R are on the list others not? very confusing to some dealers.

Many of us have called AIM but problems still exist with them?

$750 is a little low on a Collectable P38 I've seen prime Pistols lately in the $1,000- $2,000 range, more depending on condition and markings. I've also seen acceptable Pistols, no wall hangers in the $400 range all depends what you want, but the P38 is a must have for any collection.
$800 is my top, I want a Pistol I dont need to keep in a Presentation Box locked away in my Gun Safe.

Enjoy, and I suggest you look at the CZ line while they are still cheap and available. many have moved up a bit in price and getting a little hard to find. The CZ50 is a near Dupe to the CZ70's that now hit the market, and the 50 is C&R the 70 is not. The Tokes are also fun to collect, still some of the surplus ammo avalable. I have all except for a Russian, one Dirt Bag on Gunbroker slapped a set of Repo Russian Grips on a Polish and tried to pass it off to me as legit, gotta do your homework, as you have because there are some clowns out there, beware the Ad that starts,
I've never fired this gun, I'm selling it for a friend and don't know a lot about it. And ends NO RETURNS ACCEPTED.

Enjoy,
Eddie O

 

[Grey_Man]

I suggest you check out joesalter.com, he usually has a good selection and researches there history. I know him personally and he is super knowledgable, above board and fair on his prices.

I just discovered his site recently. Lots of interesting stuff on there.

 

[edhallor]

I just discovered his site recently. Lots of interesting stuff on there.

As I noted the P38 Collector runs at least $1,000-$2,000 even Joe list an entry level Collector around $1,300 plus postage. FROM YOUR WANT DESCRIPTION $2,500 would be a deal to snatch up.
Prime does not come cheap. My suggestion would be to jump in shallow water to get your feet wet. Buy a $400 P38, drop it off to your local Smith for a Check Up, Replace any springs, Safety Check, hell if you want send it out for a re-blue, with instructions to save all markings possible ( they can Dip it with a minor Buff, leaing all the scratches if you like, you can even cold blue it yourself to protect the metal )

For a couple of small ones and have yourself a nice looking good, reliable shooter that you will be happy to show and shoot.
Some folks will suggest you can find a $300 Collector, chances are about the same as winning the Lottery.

This is just one option from an old Collector to a friend entering a great Hobby and History Buff, which you are becoming by already reading the History on the P38. When you hold your P38 in your hand the first time, no matter the cost your mind will race as to where your Weapon has been and what it has seen.
Watching Movies, you will start identifying the Weapons used " Watch Enemy at the gate" Watch for the Weapon, Identify it and check the Dealerships.

It's a great Hobby, all my best to you,
Eddie O