vague waiting period?

[rusty goose]

I talked to my FFL guy last week, he said that MSP sent out a letter to FFL telling the to hold onto regulated firearms for 21 days instead of 7 as per the MD law. I wanted to transfer a handgun I sold to a neighbor, now they would have to wait 3 weeks to get it. Apparently due to their backlog doing the background checks. I called the local MSP barracks (Prince Fred) and asked them about the transfer, it was the usual; paperwork, $10 check, transfer the weapon to the buyer after 7 days if I didn't get word that they were denied. When the paperwork does finally show, both parties sign and return paperwork to MSP. I told my FFL that and he was more than a little pissed!

Anyone else hear of such a mess?

 

[BUFF7MM]

That's pretty much been going on for a couple of months with the massive influx of sales.
The transfer at MSP is standard practice.

 

[webb297]

The reason the FFLs have to hold for the "not disaproved" is that if they do not the MSP can pull it (get it pulled). The private transactions do not need to worry about that. I would just make darn sure that you know the people that you make one of these sales to - you dont want to sell them the firearm, and transfer it and have them come back "disaproved" after you have already transfered the firearm.

 

[rusty goose]

But why the inconsistency, why doesn't MSP ask me to wait longer. Is it because they cannot change the law of the land, but they bully the FFL's into it?

 

[BUFF7MM]

But why the inconsistency, why doesn't MSP ask me to wait longer. Is it because they cannot change the law of the land, but they bully the FFL's into it?

The MSP is the point of contact for NICS check that the FFL needs to go ahead with the transaction, The FFL would be violating federal law for not having the NICS number for the paperwork.

 

[Mark75H]

I understand that's what they told you then, but it might not be what they tell you when you actually fill out the paperwork.

Let us know if they really say that when your names are on the paperwork and you give them the $10

 

[jakezackw]

fyi...on feb 2 i went to the middle river barracks to do a transfer, after the trooper placed the pistol back in the vehicle he told both of us that after the seventh day i was fine to take possession of the firearm if msp didnt contact the seller and tell him differently.

 

[Mark75H]

fyi...on feb 2 i went to the middle river barracks to do a transfer, after the trooper placed the pistol back in the vehicle he told both of us that after the seventh day i was fine to take possession of the firearm if msp didnt contact the seller and tell him differently.

Thank you. I had been wanting to hear a direct report from a barracks transfer.

 

[jakezackw]

btw....we still have not received the paperwork back yet(not suprised)

 

[Ab_Normal]

And we're off...

 

[Walleyeco]

I didn't realize the MSP or any SP for that matter, had the authority to change the law?? They might make a recommendation or a request, but "telling" an FFL to modify the law is something else entirely..

 

[Pirate]

Secondary sales or private sales, call them what you want are required to be registered by the state of MD. The state of MD requires a 7 day wait. The feds do not regulate secondary sales therfore a nics number is not needed for a secondary sale. So secondary sales are only regulated by MD which means it justs needs the 7 day wait. Now MSP can ask people to hold the sale a little longer so they can get to it. This will help them by not causing them to have to go out and collect guns that end up in the hands of someone that can't own a gun. They can't change the waiting period. It is 7 days. New sales at gun shops are also regulated by feds. That is why we need the nics number to release handguns and are at the mercy of MSP. In MD only MSP can provide the nics number for a handgun purchase. Its catch 22.

 

[jakezackw]

Thanks Bob

 

[rusty goose]

When we filled out the paperwork at the barracks, they told me that if the buyer was going to be "not approoved" they would know in a couple of days and call me. Other wise after the 7 days I could release the weapon and when the paperwork finally shows up sign it and send it back.

 

[Ab_Normal]

Secondary sales or private sales, call them what you want are required to be registered by the state of MD. The state of MD requires a 7 day wait. The feds do not regulate secondary sales therfore a nics number is not needed for a secondary sale. So secondary sales are only regulated by MD which means it justs needs the 7 day wait. Now MSP can ask people to hold the sale a little longer so they can get to it. This will help them by not causing them to have to go out and collect guns that end up in the hands of someone that can't own a gun. They can't change the waiting period. It is 7 days. New sales at gun shops are also regulated by feds. That is why we need the nics number to release handguns and are at the mercy of MSP. In MD only MSP can provide the nics number for a handgun purchase. Its catch 22.

No you don't and no it isn't. The state is also not required to provide the NTN for a firearm transaction - they may provide a STN (if anything at all) in its place.

As a licensed dealer you should be familiar with section 21 of the 4473 as well as the instructions that pertain to it.

I understand that as a dealer you have to do what you have to do to stay in business. But please stop blaming the feds for the "NTN requirement" that has no basis in fact at the federal level. This problem falls squarely on the shoulders of the MSP and/or the dealers.


http://www.atf.gov/forms/download/atf-f-4473-1.pdf is a link to the 4473 if you don't have one handy. Pay particular attention to section 21 on page 2 and the instructions for section 21 on pages 5 and 6.

 

[rob-cubed]

No you don't and no it isn't.

Well, all of the IPs on the board disagree with you. Not one of them wants to have a month's worth of paid for items piled in corners and be fielding regular calls from frustrated buyers... if there was a legal way around this, don't you think it would be happening already?

The MSP can suck it with their "suggested 21 day wait" memos, it is indeed legal to release a firearm without a "not disapproved" after 7 days. It's the intersection of Fed bound books and MD 77r requirements that are the stalemate for FFLs.

 

[44 Bulldog]

you think that's bad, see National 2A issues forum: FBI Director testifying

 

[Terplover]

For private transactions you may release the firearm after the seven day wait period beginning on the day the paperwork was submitted to MSP.

 

[Marksman]

No you don't and no it isn't. The state is also not required to provide the NTN for a firearm transaction - they may provide a STN (if anything at all) in its place.

As a licensed dealer you should be familiar with section 21 of the 4473 as well as the instructions that pertain to it.

I understand that as a dealer you have to do what you have to do to stay in business. But please stop blaming the feds for the "NTN requirement" that has no basis in fact at the federal level. This problem falls squarely on the shoulders of the MSP and/or the dealers.


http://www.atf.gov/forms/download/atf-f-4473-1.pdf is a link to the 4473 if you don't have one handy. Pay particular attention to section 21 on page 2 and the instructions for section 21 on pages 5 and 6.

THANK YOU!!! Finally someone with some actual knowledge of the LAW!!! The NICS number does NOT have to come from the MSP!!!

 

[Mark75H]

THANK YOU!!! Finally someone with some actual knowledge of the LAW!!! The NICS number does NOT have to come from the MSP!!!

"Law" doesn't but MSP "Guidelines" for MD licensed (actually a separate license issued by MD in addition to their Federal) gun dealers does.

If they want to keep their MD retail firearms license, they must abide by the MSP Guidelines

Its like Zoning, OSHA and EPA ... there are "guidelines" and "codes" that aren't necessarily "law", but try telling that to a code inspector that isn't giving you a final approval or is writing a summons or fine


This is not the only case where there is a conflict between various laws and government agencies ... and be absolutely certain, MSP is the agency that has the closest eye on MD dealers