VA Resident with question about commute through MD

[LargemouthAss]

I moved to Northern Virginia a year ago as MD taxes and gun control pushed me from my home state. Every morning I drive into MD to drop off my two kids at day care then commute to downtown DC for work. I would like to get a VA CCW permit but I have held off since I spend most of my time in DC and make daily stops in Maryland, it seemed like getting a concealed carry permit was not worth the hassle since I could not carry Monday-Friday for most of the day and if I am going to carry I want to carry all the time.

Now that DC has been forced to allow non-residents to carry the idea of getting the ccw permit seems much more worthwhile. Assuming that DC does not go the Maryland route and refuse to allow non-residents to carry (I know it's a long shot but stay with me) how would I feasibly deal with the transporting of a loaded firearm in and out of Maryland five days a week? I know I have to keep the gun unloaded and out of reach but HOW out of reach and is this hassle too much to deal with? If any out-of-MD residents carry and come into Maryland daily I would love to hear how you deal with this issue.

I was thinking of getting a small under-the-bed safe and securing it under the passenger seat of my car with a cable, and putting the gun (without the magazine inserted) in the safe when I leave in the morning (since I only drive 2 miles before I am at the bridge) and either wear an empty IWB holster or keep it in the glove box. Once I get into DC I could pull over and load the gun and put it in the holster. I know that if I am vigilant about this it will become routine but I do worry about the chance that I forget and get caught with a loaded gun on my person in Montgomery County. Any advice or experience is welcome.

 

[JettaRed]

I would not take the chance.

 

[jmcgonig]

In the trunk (locked) with the magazine out. My understanding is that you transport using that method. The only issue is that I believe the law requires you to go directly through MD or to your destination. Its probably a small issue, but driving into MD for a stop and then to DC is probably technically illegal. Sounds like alot of hassle. Depending on where you work you probably can't take it into the workplace so for almost the entire trip it will need to be in the trunk.

 

[Inigoes]

FOPA applies

This is very important: "Prior to" (not after) entering MD, seperate ammo and pistol.

Once you get your VA permit, you can carry in DC for now (unless they get a stay in the Palmer case).

 

[swinokur]

If you make a temporary stop (don't spend the night) IMO you'd be ok to do what you propose. MD would not be your destination so FOPA would probably protect you. FOPA only requires the ammo and pistol to be separate from YOU. If no trunk lock up the ammo or the firearm. Only one is required because the statute says OR.

IANAL.

FOPA

Notwithstanding any other provision of any law or any rule or regulation of a State or any political subdivision thereof, any person who is not otherwise prohibited by this chapter from transporting, shipping, or receiving a firearm shall be entitled to transport a firearm for any lawful purpose from any place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm to any other place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm if, during such transportation the firearm is unloaded, and neither the firearm nor any ammunition being transported is readily accessible or is directly accessible from the passenger compartment of such transporting vehicle: Provided, That in the case of a vehicle without a compartment separate from the driver’s compartment the firearm or ammunition shall be contained in a locked container other than the glove compartment or console.

 

[Nanook]

If you make a temporary stop (don't spend the night) IMO you'd be ok to do what you propose. MD would not be your destination so FOPA would probably protect you.

IANAL.

If he's coming into Marylandistan to drop his kids off, that is his destination. Destination enroute to final destination, but destination regardless. I am not a lawyer either.

 

[swinokur]

Which is why I used the word probably. The courts have held temporary stops to be ok. (Can't find the cite however.) I know you have FOPA coverage while on air travel if you don't physically possess the firearm. See Revell vs Port Authority NY and NJ. locked in your trunk seems ok based on that case.

And don't consent to a search.

Still IANAL

 

[LargemouthAss]

Thanks for the help guys! It sounds like this CAN be done legally especially if I have the gun and magazine seperated when I leave my house in the morning. Now I need to figure out if it is worth the hassle. My job requires that I travel to numerous areas of the city including some really bad areas, on several instances I have really wished I was carrying a firearm. I think the inconvenience may be worth it.

Are there any out-of-MD concealed carriers who commute into Maryland who would be willing to share their routine? Where you keep your gun in the car when in Maryland? After leaving Maryland how/where you get your gun out of the trunk of the car and carry again? I drive an SUV so I do not have an actual trunk but I would be willing to keep the safe concealed in the rear cargo area, would that work?

Again thanks for all the help! I never thought the opportunity to carry daily would ever come so I never researched the implications of dealing with Maryland.

 

[RoboRay]

FOPA would not apply, since you have an actual destination (dropping off the kids) in MD. That's not a "just passing through" stop of necessity, as with gas-stations or hotels; that's an intended destination.

So, all the MD laws apply. Don't do it.

Is there no child-care option in VA?

 

[swinokur]

As long as the firearm or ammo are locked, you're ok. I go to VA frequently. I keep the gun in my car safe, then unlock it and load and holster when I get into VA.

No issues.

IANAL but carry from MD into VA often.

 

[swinokur]

FOPA would not apply, since you have an actual destination (dropping off the kids) in MD. That's not a "just passing through" stop of necessity, as with gas-stations or hotels; that's an intended destination.

So, all the MD laws apply. Don't do it.

Is there no child-care option in VA?

We will have to agree to disagree. The courts have held that if you stop , even overnight but don't take possession, it's ok. In the trunk is not possessing.

See Revell vs Port Authority of NY and NJ. The court ruled the defendant guilty because he took possession of his luggage for an unsceduled overnight stay. If he had not, he would have been found not guilty. Leaving it locked in the trunk would seem to meet that intent and requirement

IANAL.

 

[LargemouthAss]

I am not taking my kids to a different school so that I can conceal carry.













My wife won't let me.

 

[brackishfly]

Would said child day care fall into the category of a "School Zone"? Where the law has a 'guns' no go zone?

 

[LargemouthAss]

No. Right now they are in a day care located in an office building but soon it will be a private school for my daughter and I expect my son will follow when he is old enough (he is currently 5 months old)

 

[ras_oscar]

If you have a work requirement to carry, you might be able to qualify for a MD carry permit. Have you looked into it, and would your employer be willing to write a leter confirming this as a job requirement?

 

[Pinecone]

We will have to agree to disagree. The courts have held that if you stop , even overnight but don't take possession, it's ok. In the trunk is not possessing.

See Revell vs Port Authority of NY and NJ. The court ruled the defendant guilty because he took possession of his luggage for an unsceduled overnight stay. If he had not, he would have been found not guilty. Leaving it locked in the trunk would seem to meet that intent and requirement

IANAL.

IMO, locked trunk is in your possession as you control access. In Revell vs Port Authority, while it was with the AIRLINE, it was not in his possession, as he did not have control over or access to it.

IANAL.

 

[swinokur]

Wrong, Revell took the suitcase with him to a hotel. Had he left it with the airline he would have been found not guilty. He took possession. Whether locked ina trunk would be legal would be up to a judge or jury to decide. But if locked in your trunk isn't satisfactory, why does FOPA allow it? If you stop for gas, that''s a destination too according to some people. The courts have held temporary stops are legal.

 

[Pinecone]

I know of someone who was arrested in NJ (Newark airport) as soon as his hand touched his gun case. The airline put the bags on the belt for pickup when the connections could not be made.

And they will not let you recheck the bags for flights the next day.

Possession to me means control. You can control getting into your trunk. You cannot control access when the airline has it.

I do not believe this is covered under FOPA as he is going specifically to a place in MD, not stopping along the way getting gas.

Not that WE can figure out what will happen if he gets caught doing this.

 

[swinokur]

The purpose of FOPA is to keep the gun out of your control and/or possession while on travel. That's why it's stipulated "out of the passenger compartment." If it's ok while you are moving, what changed because you stopped? Still locked in your trunk, same as when the car was moving.

Guess the judge will decide this if if happens.

Here is a copy of an air travel rule and FOPA that TSA was instructed to follow,

 

[Pinecone]

The question is if FOPA covers a planned stop for a specific purpose or not. It does cover "normal" reasons to stop (fuel, food, over night).

If yes, he is GTG. But if not, he would be in violation of MD law as to the reasons that you can carry a handgun in your vehicle.

FOPA does not remove the firearm from your control or possession. But it does make you take a while to get to the firearm and ammunition together.