Trespass by Md DNR Police

[Park ranger]

I really dont want to get into details after all the disrespect, and I think some towards me, going on here. I dont know why this has always been confusing to people. Does a beat cop not have a right to come up and knock on your door to see if you know anything about the break in, in the neighborhood? They have a reason to be there. But a city cop cant take your doorbell camera and put up their own without a judge saying ok. So probably not a whole lot different. The differences in the police agencies are very minor.

 

[lazarus]

They don’t need your permission, or a warrant to enter your property.
As it was explained to me, they are to here protect the wildlife of the state. The state owns the wildlife, no one else, so essentially the wildlife is theirs.
If they happen to find something else not wildlife related, I’m sure they have to come back with warrant, but I’m not sure?

One of my family members had a pond on their property, that they paid to have stocked with fish. DNR came in one day, as several of us were fishing. They asked if everyone had fishing licenses. The ones that didn’t got warnings. My uncle explained to the officer that the fish weren’t wild, they were bought and payed for. The DNR officer told him the state owns all the fish in the state, and that a fishing license was required. I found that kind of odd.

A warrant is required to search a vehicle or inside of structures unless they have a reasonable belief a game law violation has occurred. It cannot be just because and IIRC, are still bound by exigency circumstance requires on a property search.

This does NOT include your curtilage or surrounding lands which they just need a reasonable suspicion.

They cannot search your property just to look for any violation. There has to be some suspicion that a violation could have occurred. IE hear or see something that would lead a reasonable person to suspect hunting might be occurring. Then they could conduct a trespass.

Yes, they can trespass to access another property.

But if they knock on your door and ask to search your house, the answer is “not without a warrant”.

Okay, so they barge in. Then it’s up to them to prove anything found isn’t fruit of a poisoned tree (supposing you were doing anything wrong). And certainly time to call a lawyer and tee up a lawsuit for entry under false pretenses and an illegal search.

 

[mikem623]

I really dont want to get into details after all the disrespect, and I think some towards me, going on here. I dont know why this has always been confusing to people. Does a beat cop not have a right to come up and knock on your door to see if you know anything about the break in, in the neighborhood? They have a reason to be there. But a city cop cant take your doorbell camera and put up their own without a judge saying ok. So probably not a whole lot different. The differences in the police agencies are very minor.

When you were asked for input, there wasn't any disrespect intended. Just thought you may explain why things are done the way they are done.

 

[lazarus]

I really dont want to get into details after all the disrespect, and I think some towards me, going on here. I dont know why this has always been confusing to people. Does a beat cop not have a right to come up and knock on your door to see if you know anything about the break in, in the neighborhood? They have a reason to be there. But a city cop cant take your doorbell camera and put up their own without a judge saying ok. So probably not a whole lot different. The differences in the police agencies are very minor.

you can tell said beat cop to leave your property and they legally must unless they are there to execute a warrant or present under exigent circumstances.

Game warden just needs a suspicion a game law could be violated. Not was, but could be.

 

[Park ranger]

When you were asked for input, there wasn't any disrespect intended. Just thought you may explain why things are done the way they are done.

Didn't perceive any from you. Cheers.

 

[Squaregrouper]

This topic has come up here before. It led to the end of a long time member who (after numerous prior suspensions) suggested that any DNR officers found on his property would likely be mistaken for deer and handled accordingly. I predict this one has at least a 3% chance of going better than that thread did...

Would this be about a member whose Bizarro screen name was something along the lines of Light Minimum? If yes, I remember the thread.

 

[mikem623]

you can tell said beat cop to leave your property and they legally must unless they are there to execute a warrant or present under exigent circumstances.

Game warden just needs a suspicion a game law could be violated. Not was, but could be.

Guess with that; there goes probable cause. No 4th amendment

 

[lazarus]

DNR, Coast Guard anyd DOT all seem to get a free pass. I have heard dnr can go anywhere, coast guard can board and search and dot can stop for a safety inspection all with out any real probable cause. I have experienced the dot but not the others.

Coast guard is a yes. They don’t need any reasonable suspicion. Again, the circumstance have to warrant it. They can’t come knocking on my door and search my house. Any coastal waters they can search my boat for a safety check and any contraband. No warrant needed or probable cause. That’s been established since we started as a country.

 

[shershot99]

A warrant is required to search a vehicle or inside of structures unless they have a reasonable belief a game law violation has occurred. It cannot be just because and IIRC, are still bound by exigency circumstance requires on a property search.

This does NOT include your curtilage or surrounding lands which they just need a reasonable suspicion.

They cannot search your property just to look for any violation. There has to be some suspicion that a violation could have occurred. IE hear or see something that would lead a reasonable person to suspect hunting might be occurring. Then they could conduct a trespass.

Yes, they can trespass to access another property.

But if they knock on your door and ask to search your house, the answer is “not without a warrant”.

Okay, so they barge in. Then it’s up to them to prove anything found isn’t fruit of a poisoned tree (supposing you were doing anything wrong). And certainly time to call a lawyer and tee up a lawsuit for entry under false pretenses and an illegal search.

Correct. They have full police powers and must follow all the same rules. Remember, they can say whatever they want as any cop can. But they have to be able to back it up in court to make things stick. They aren’t super cops with super powers. Know your rights and always demand a warrant. That is not being an A hole, it’s exercising your rights.


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[lazarus]

Guess with that; there goes probable cause. No 4th amendment

The 4th protects “ The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects,” against unreasonable searches and seizures.

Your land is not your person, house, paper or effects.

Courts has ruled since the start your boat isn’t considered any of those either.

The court has ruled that the curtilage is considered part of your house for purposes of the 4th. The lands surrounding aren’t. So police could search that. But again, private property rights still exist in that you can tell an agent of the government to leave under most circumstances. But it is not considered an unreasonable search if they don’t have a warrant and search it without seeking permission.

So if you live on 3000 acres, yeah police can come by looking for hidden MJ farming operations outside. They also need to leave if you catch them and tell them to leave unless they’ve got probable cause or a warrant.

 

[lazarus]

Actually I think they have it BETTER than cops, game animals don't talk back.

They do if you’ve been drinking enough.

 

[joppaj]

Yup

I remember the day HeWhoMustNotBeNamed got bounced

I remember that was some maximum heavy bs in that thread.

Would this be about a member whose Bizarro screen name was something along the lines of Light Minimum? If yes, I remember the thread.

Indeed

 

[Doobie]

They don’t need your permission, or a warrant to enter your property.
As it was explained to me, they are to here protect the wildlife of the state. The state owns the wildlife, no one else, so essentially the wildlife is theirs.
If they happen to find something else not wildlife related, I’m sure they have to come back with warrant, but I’m not sure?

One of my family members had a pond on their property, that they paid to have stocked with fish. DNR came in one day, as several of us were fishing. They asked if everyone had fishing licenses. The ones that didn’t got warnings. My uncle explained to the officer that the fish weren’t wild, they were bought and payed for. The DNR officer told him the state owns all the fish in the state, and that a fishing license was required. I found that kind of odd.

The state “owns” the wildlife yet when one of “their” wildlife runs into your vehicle or causes other property damage, the state won’t pay for damages caused by “their” wildlife.

 

[nedsurf]

The 4th protects “ The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects,” against unreasonable searches and seizures.

Your land is not your person, house, paper or effects.

Courts has ruled since the start your boat isn’t considered any of those either.

The court has ruled that the curtilage is considered part of your house for purposes of the 4th. The lands surrounding aren’t. So police could search that. But again, private property rights still exist in that you can tell an agent of the government to leave under most circumstances. But it is not considered an unreasonable search if they don’t have a warrant and search it without seeking permission.

So if you live on 3000 acres, yeah police can come by looking for hidden MJ farming operations outside. They also need to leave if you catch them and tell them to leave unless they’ve got probable cause or a warrant.

Also a knock and talk is just that and there is no obligation to even respond to the knock. Its legal unless someone gets clever and brings a drug sniffing dog like in Florida v. Jardines 569 US 1 (2013). Its one of Justice's Scalia's must reads.

 

[DaemonAssassin]

The state “owns” the wildlife yet when one of “their” wildlife runs into your vehicle or causes other property damage, the state won’t pay for damages caused by “their” wildlife.

The lunacy is epic, isn't it?

 

[Doobie]

The lunacy is epic, isn't it?

Yes sir, it is

 

[AlphabetSoup]

Also a knock and talk is just that and there is no obligation to even respond to the knock. Its legal unless someone gets clever and brings a drug sniffing dog like in Florida v. Jardines 569 US 1 (2013). Its one of Justice's Scalia's must reads.

Bravo to you and Lazarus. Saved me a bunch of typing and better said!

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[Doctor_M]

I'm an NRP reserve officer. The reserve officers are volunteers who do not have the police powers of the sworn officers... we support public safety, education, traffic control, search and rescue, vessel safety inspections, hunter safety, etc. type activities. There are less than 400 NRP sworn officers for the entire state of MD. They are spread thin, so the reserve officers help free them up so they can focus on enforcement activities. There was a time when reserve officers used to accompany the sworn officers on law enforcement calls, so that the NRP officers had some back up, had someone to assist with comms, and someone who could provide first aid if the officer was otherwise occupied. That largely came to an end because someone brought suit that the reserve officers could not follow the sworn officers onto private property since they did not have the same authority. Most of our support now focuses on public land or waterways.

 

[Vile Shadow]

The state “owns” the wildlife yet when one of “their” wildlife runs into your vehicle or causes other property damage, the state won’t pay for damages caused by “their” wildlife.

If that would fly the state would owe me a pile of money

 

[44man]

The state “owns” the wildlife yet when one of “their” wildlife runs into your vehicle or causes other property damage, the state won’t pay for damages caused by “their” wildlife.

The dnr came to the farm once to make sure I hadn’t killed more than the 40 deer that had given me crop damage permits for that year. He told me the state owned the deer. I told him the state probably owes me a million fvcking dollars for corn and beans and hay that the deer have eaten that I owned. He acted like a giant dock and told me that’s why I got cdp’s. So I told him that some quick math meant that each deer must be worth $1,000 and I asked why the state just didn’t put a $1,000 bounty on the fvckin cockroaches.

He had no answer and said he was just doing his job and someone had made an anonymous report and that people had complained about the amount of shooting we did blah blah blah

I know they have a job to do but everyone isn’t breaking the law so everyone shouldn’t be treated like they are. Innocent until proven guilty and all that