Training Requirement for CCW - What's the big deal? (go easy on me)

[DOsniper]

Ok, I am posting this knowing very well in advanced it is going to catch heat but I want to get a consensus of the reasons why people are against so sort of minimal training requirement for a CCW. HYPOTHETICALLY, let's say for a brief moment the State is actually willing to work with us on this issue inside or outside of court, and they say ok, but at minimum you have to have either the MD Handgun Course or Hunter Safety Card. Would you all really throw it back in their face if that was their only condition (on top of background check and the usual business)?

Here's my 2c: Yes, the 2A is a right and it should not be "infringed" upon, but let's stop playing stupid and actually acknowledge the fact a firearm is a very dangerous object that can harm/kill accidentally if in the wrong/uninformed hands (yes and in criminals hands, that's a whole different can of worms). With that said, I feel it would only take one kid or random pedestrian being killed by some dickhead accidentally setting off his gun because he did something other "trained"/informed shooters would know not to do, and the media would blow that shit up in all the papers and news channels and before you know it every douche representing some unknown anti-2A organization is convincing MD to some how throw the CCW laws out the window again. You can say I am crazy, but go on you tube and look at how many people bitch and complain against open carrying or guys getting stopped in open carry states because, "it scares people," and some moron calls the police, even though the guy carrying is within his rights. So now, consider the situation I described and tell me why the liberal left wouldn't have an anti-2A field day if something like that happened

So I want to hear reasons against this statement. Please, refrain from bringing money it to this because seriously, if you can't afford $50 for a hunter's safety course, then you probably can't afford the gun, ammo, and gas it will take to go hunting plus, MD's Handgun Course is free (assuming they require one of the two, I have no clue what NRA classes run). Please stay calm and cool headed, it's just for conversation. I freaking love the 2A and this country and would die for it in a flash, but I am also a rational/logical personal who thinks you can't always have your cake and eat too.

With that said, let the chaos begin

Edit: Due to the distaste of the word "pretend," I am changing the wording to "hypothetically." I am well aware the odds of the state offering such a deal is a billion to one, but doesn't mean there still isn't a chance and hence the curiosity behind the question.

 

[Inigoes]

Where will be courses offered?

Some of us in SoMD have to travel an hour to get anywhere.

There is no MD handgun course presently. What is the length? Anything more than 1 day would be unacceptable due to travel and work related reasons.

What additional cost is there going to be?

See how the $$$ starts to add up when people wish to be well intentioned...

Obtw, everything the state does revolves around money. Ever heard the saying you can't live off of love?

 

[Broadside]

You obviously haven't bothered to read former Attorney General Joseph Curran's blueprint for banning firearms in Maryland. Have you?

The problem is that your presumption is faulty. No one with any power in the Maryland Government wants to "work with" gunowners. They only want to do everything they can to restrict the Second Amendment rights of the residents of Maryland.

You only need to look as recent as the last legislative session to see this. Remember Senator's Frosh's attempt to ram through an open ended training requirement for permits? It would have basically disqualified everyone who had applied post-Woollard.

Why is it that Pennsylanvia seems to get by fine without any training requirement and yet somehow Maryland must have one or there will be blood running in the streets?

 

[lx1x]

Where will be courses offered?

Some of us in SoMD have to travel an hour to get anywhere.

There is no MD handgun course presently. What is the length? Anything more than 1 day would be unacceptable due to travel and work related reasons.

What additional cost is there going to be?

See how the $$$ starts to add up when people wish to be well intentioned...

http://www.mdgunsafety.com/ <--how about this.. ?

last training i went to. 2hours drive to PA ...(3rdRcn - NRA: outside the home)

 

[Inigoes]

http://www.mdgunsafety.com/ <--how about this.. ?

last training i had. 2hours drive ...(3rdRcn - NRA: outside the home) i went to..

That's what I initially thought of, but I don't think it's a handgun course. When you read the page it clearly states "firearms".

 

[lx1x]

That's what I initially thought of, but I don't think it's a course.

according to them it is..

but as far as CCW they probably would come up something like DNR hunter safety course.. maybe couple of days w/ on-hand range time..

i'll be happy if they take NRA certs too.. <crossing finger>

 

[Inigoes]

according to them it is..

but as far as CCW they probably would come up something like DNR.. maybe couple of days w/ on-hand range time..

i'll be happy if they take NRA certs too.. <crossing finger>

As it stands now, you don't need to have training.

Although the maryland state police would like to see that you have completed training.

 

[lx1x]

As lol stands now, you don't need to have training. Although the maryland state police would like to see that you have completed training.

thats correct.. but knowing their record tract..

 

[smokey]

1) md will use training prohibitively to restrict permits. They will use cost, availability, location, and making it unprofitable to give the class to restrict the right...they just will.

2) We have laws on how to and how not to legally carry and defend yourself. It's incumbent on the person carrying to know those laws. If someone breaks them, they will face the consequences.

3) other states don't have a training requirement and things are just fine. If someone breaks a law, they face the penalty for it.

4) 2nd amendment IS a right. Do you need to take a class before exercising your 1st amendment right?

5) training IS NOT a bad thing...it's something responsible gun owners should seek out to best defend themselves against harm, and needless legal penalties. MANDATORY training IS A VERY BAD THING, because the state has the power to set what acceptable training is(see #1)

6) a gun IS potentially dangerous...I could also kill you with a knife, baseball bat, lighter or pillow. Should I be mandated to take training before i'm allowed to carry any of those items?

 

[damosan]

I have a DD214 and I'd want to use that. Otherwise if all it took was a shooting course, and I like to shoot, I'd sign up.

D.

 

[lx1x]

1) md will use training prohibitively to restrict permits. They will use cost, availability, location, and making it unprofitable to give the class to restrict the right...they just will.

2) We have laws on how to and how not to legally carry and defend yourself. It's incumbent on the person carrying to know those laws. If someone breaks them, they will face the consequences.

3) other states don't have a training requirement and things are just fine. If someone breaks a law, they face the penalty for it.

4) 2nd amendment IS a right. Do you need to take a class before exercising your 1st amendment right?

yes.. (at least my case since i wasnt born here)

gooberment class in highschool and citizenship test/interview.. actually the first question i've been ask is what are the bill of rights..

 

[swinokur]

The problem is what Brian Frosh tried to pull on us. Expensive, exclusive training controlled by one organization run bu the state.

Recipe for more CONTROL. Do what other states do if necessary, ie NRA, Hunter Safety, DD214, etc.

 

[DOsniper]

Ok well I guess no one bothered reading the part where I said, "let's pretend," or "if they required one of the two." PLEASE don't sit here and speculate, that is not the point nor does it have any merit in the context I presented. There are a million + 1 "training" bullcrap requirements I could venture up that MD could throw at us, but they are still guesses at best.

Simply put, if they required one of those two courses, would you really flip a shit, and if so why?

That's all. Not concerned about, "well they could do this or that" or, "In California (pick a state) they did this" we live in Maryland, no where else. If you are out of state looking for a CCW well I guess that too is another can of worms. Good start though I like it.

 

[safecracker]

Ok, I am posting this knowing very well in advanced it is going to catch heat but I want to get a consensus of the reasons why people are against so sort of minimal training requirement for a CCW. Let's pretend for a moment the State is actually willing to work with us on this issue outside court, and they say ok, but at minimum you have to have either the MD Handgun Course or Hunter Safety Card. Would you all really throw it back in their face if that was their only condition (on top of background check and the usual business)?

Here's my 2c: Yes, the 2A is a right and it should not be "infringed" upon, but let's stop playing stupid and actually acknowledge the fact a firearm is a very dangerous object that can harm/kill accidentally if in the wrong/uninformed hands (yes and in criminals hands, that's a whole different can of worms). With that said, I feel it would only take one kid or random pedestrian being killed by some dickhead accidentally setting off his gun because he did something other "trained"/informed shooters would know not to do, and the media would blow that shit up in all the papers and news channels and before you know it every douche representing some unknown anti-2A organization is convincing MD to some how throw the CCW laws out the window again. You can say I am crazy, but go on you tube and look at how many people bitch and complain against open carrying or guys getting stopped in open carry states because, "it scares people," and some moron calls the police, even though the guy carrying is within his rights. So now, consider the situation I described and tell me why the liberal left wouldn't have an anti-2A field day if something like that happened

So I want to hear reasons against this statement. Please, refrain from bringing money it to this because seriously, if you can't afford $50 for a hunter's safety course, then you probably can't afford the gun, ammo, and gas it will take to go hunting plus, MD's Handgun Course is free (assuming they require one of the two, I have no clue what NRA classes run). Please stay calm and cool headed, it's just for conversation. I freaking love the 2A and this country and would die for it in a flash, but I am also a rational/logical personal who thinks you can't always have your cake and eat too.

With that said, let the chaos begin

When Frosh tried to ram through his open-ended 'training requirement', the State could have introduced something along the lines of:

-one class per year,
-class limit of 15 persons,
-with a non-refundable $1000 fee,
-with two days of classroom time,
-and two days of range time,
-both requiring a score of 100%,
-with the applicant responsible for all expenses associated with attending the course, which incidently, will be held at the MSP barracks in Garrett County on Christmas weekend and New Years weekend.

Get the picture?

 

[WeaponsCollector]

The several states with Constitutional Carry don't have training requirements and any adult who can legally own a gun can carry it concealed(which is how it SHOULD be).
People should be able to keep and bear their arms without having to jump through hoops.

 

[EL1227]

Attached ...

You obviously haven't bothered to read former Attorney General Joseph Curran's blueprint for banning firearms in Maryland. Have you?

Just in case no one has read it ...

Take Curran's 1999 disertation on gun control, "A FAREWELL TO ARMS; The Solution to Gun Violence in America" as Owe'Malley's marching orders and weigh that against any 'compromise' you might consider regarding training.

OBTW ... O'Malley's father-in-law, J. Joseph Curran, Jr., served as Attorney General of Maryland from 1987-2007.

ANY and all roadblocks, including taxes, fees, certified trainers, certified locations, wait periods, limited availability, preferential treatment, wait lists, once a year re-training ... the possibilities go on and on, would be used to circumvent Judge Legg's decision ... after all, "it's for the children".

 

[Inigoes]

Ok well I guess no one bothered reading the part where I said, "let's pretend," or "if they required one of the two." PLEASE don't sit here and speculate, that is not the point. There are a million + 1 "training" requirements I could venture up that MD could throw at us, but they are still guesses at best.

Simply put, if they required one of those two courses, would you really flip a shit, and if so why? That's all. Good start though I like it.

If you want to "Pretend", then how about giving people a permit if they pass a simple background check.

Everything else has been reality, beating back Brian Frosh's repeated assaults on our rights, to keep his law firm in plenty of business.

 

[smokey]

Ok well I guess no one bothered reading the part where I said, "let's pretend," or "if they required one of the two." PLEASE don't sit here and speculate, that is not the point nor does it have any merit in the context I presented. There are a million + 1 "training" bullcrap requirements I could venture up that MD could throw at us, but they are still guesses at best.

Simply put, if they required one of those two courses, would you really flip a shit, and if so why?

That's all. Not concerned about, "well they could do this or that" or, "In California (pick a state) they did this" we live in Maryland, no where else. If you are out of state looking for a CCW well I guess that too is another can of worms. Good start though I like it.

.....yes, I would flip a shit. If you don't think they're going to do what we told you they are going to do, you need to pay more attention to md politics

 

[DOsniper]

If you want to "Pretend", then how about giving people a permit if they pass a simple background check.

Everything else has been reality, beating back Brian Frosh's repeated assaults on our rights, to keep his law firm in plenty of business.

Because pretending currently is become a potential reality with woollard's case in the works.

If you don't want to answer the question I posed, as I posed it, then don't respond if you don't want to "pretend" with the rest of us.

 

[esqappellate]

Ok, I am posting this knowing very well in advanced it is going to catch heat but I want to get a consensus of the reasons why people are against so sort of minimal training requirement for a CCW. Let's pretend for a moment the State is actually willing to work with us on this issue outside court, and they say ok, but at minimum you have to have either the MD Handgun Course or Hunter Safety Card. Would you all really throw it back in their face if that was their only condition (on top of background check and the usual business)?

Here's my 2c: Yes, the 2A is a right and it should not be "infringed" upon, but let's stop playing stupid and actually acknowledge the fact a firearm is a very dangerous object that can harm/kill accidentally if in the wrong/uninformed hands (yes and in criminals hands, that's a whole different can of worms). With that said, I feel it would only take one kid or random pedestrian being killed by some dickhead accidentally setting off his gun because he did something other "trained"/informed shooters would know not to do, and the media would blow that shit up in all the papers and news channels and before you know it every douche representing some unknown anti-2A organization is convincing MD to some how throw the CCW laws out the window again. You can say I am crazy, but go on you tube and look at how many people bitch and complain against open carrying or guys getting stopped in open carry states because, "it scares people," and some moron calls the police, even though the guy carrying is within his rights. So now, consider the situation I described and tell me why the liberal left wouldn't have an anti-2A field day if something like that happened

So I want to hear reasons against this statement. Please, refrain from bringing money it to this because seriously, if you can't afford $50 for a hunter's safety course, then you probably can't afford the gun, ammo, and gas it will take to go hunting plus, MD's Handgun Course is free (assuming they require one of the two, I have no clue what NRA classes run). Please stay calm and cool headed, it's just for conversation. I freaking love the 2A and this country and would die for it in a flash, but I am also a rational/logical personal who thinks you can't always have your cake and eat too.

With that said, let the chaos begin

This is undeniably true. There won't be any room for mistakes. From these fora, I would have to say that the folks here know plenty about firearms and how to use them. I would also say that a lot of folks here are not as knowledgeable about the law concerning their use -- and you guys are probably the cream of the crop of people who would/should get permits.

Personally, I don't think you can have too much training -- you fight how you train and if you don't train you make mistakes and mistakes can be fatal. I know the law (having spent many hours looking at statutes and case law) and I have certificates as a NRA RSO, and in Personal Protection In The Home and Personal Protection Outside the Home and I practice all the time. But, I am far from satisfied that I am as prepared as I need to be. The PPITH and PPOTH courses give invaluable classroom instruction on the law as well as a lot of time on the range. Strongly recommended. Do it for yourself, regardless of whether it is legally mandated.