To build a legal AR

[J Beard]

So.....
If i were to buy a lower now (stripped or complete) and some parts.

How much of a complete rifle would I have to buy before Oct 1 to be legal?
A lower and a barrel? A lower a barrel and a stripped upper? More?

I can't afford a complete rifle now , but hopefully I can afford to build one "Johnny Cash" style.

And to think... I had no desire to have one at all before this nonsense started.

 

[MostlyHarmless]

Hard to say, but the law seems to imply that no new regulated weapons can be bought or created in MD starting in Oct.

One option is to buy as stripped lower, LPK, and buffer assembly before the new law. Put them all together one evening. Borrow a complete upper from a friend, and go shoot a couple of rounds. New regulated firearm in MD. Then next year when you have the cash for some new parts to upgrade your upper, you do it. Your AR has some nice new accessories (upper receiver), but no new weapon was created after the new law.

If you were to buy a complete lower in Sept, and the MSP wait kept you from getting it until Dec, I really don't know if putting an upper on it then would be manufacturing a new regulated weapon...?

 

[IMBLITZVT]

If you were to buy a complete lower in Sept, and the MSP wait kept you from getting it until Dec, I really don't know if putting an upper on it then would be manufacturing a new regulated weapon...?

Cases like this came up after the 86 MG Ban where people had registered MGs parts that could not be installed according to the ATF. Basically they became paperweights according to the ATF. The ATF was sued over it and the courts ruled that you must be able to complete a gun if properly registered. While not directly the same, its pretty clear they can't stop you from putting together an AR if you have a preBan registered lower. I think the case with the ATF was with Norrell and 10-22 registered sears packs if I recall...

 

[mac1_131]

A lower is purchased regulated and registered so one would think you would be ok.

Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk 2

 

[agstevens05]

Way I understood it is as long as you owned the registered part it is ok. I just put a payment on a lower from EA.

 

[ThatGuy179]

Way I understood it is as long as you owned the registered part it is ok. I just put a payment on a lower from EA.

Correct. The lower is the registered part. As long as u have it or bought it before oct 1 you are good. Stock up on lowers now!!!

 

[Markp]

Cases like this came up after the 86 MG Ban where people had registered MGs parts that could not be installed according to the ATF. Basically they became paperweights according to the ATF. The ATF was sued over it and the courts ruled that you must be able to complete a gun if properly registered. While not directly the same, its pretty clear they can't stop you from putting together an AR if you have a preBan registered lower. I think the case with the ATF was with Norrell and 10-22 registered sears packs if I recall...

Most correct answer is above, no one knows yet, but the law states that if you haven't built it, it would be illegal to do so after 1 Oct 2013. It's unenforceable but it's the law.

Correct. The lower is the registered part. As long as u have it or bought it before oct 1 you are good. Stock up on lowers now!!!

This is dangerous advice, and I believe wrong. Proving it might be difficulty but according to the law, it would be illegal to build an assault weapon from a weapon that was not an assault weapon.

A stripped receiver is NOT an assault weapon (regardless of whether you purchased it as a regulated firearm or not).

This on going to become very important after 1 October when people want to buy AR style receivers, because the way the law is written we will be able to continue to buy weapons based on the AR receiver and the receivers themselves.

Mark

 

[agstevens05]

Most correct answer is above, no one knows yet, but the law states that if you haven't built it, it would be illegal to do so after 1 Oct 2013. It's unenforceable but it's the law.



This is dangerous advice, and I believe wrong. Proving it might be difficulty but according to the law, it would be illegal to build an assault weapon from a weapon that was not an assault weapon.

A stripped receiver is NOT an assault weapon (regardless of whether you purchased it as a regulated firearm or not).

This on going to become very important after 1 October when people want to buy AR style receivers, because the way the law is written we will be able to continue to buy weapons based on the AR receiver and the receivers themselves.

Mark

None of the other parts are registered right?

 

[wesser1]

I have no idea why this is still being discussed. If you own a LOWER RECEIVER, you can build it into anything you want after Oct 1 because you are on the books has owning a regulated "assault long gun" and are grandfathered in.

The lower IS the firearm, the rest are accessories, including the upper.

 

[wesser1]

deleted duplicate post (no idea why it duplicated)

 

[agstevens05]

I have no idea why this is still being discussed. If you own a LOWER RECEIVER, you can build it into anything you want after Oct 1 because you are on the books has owning a regulated "assault long gun" and are grandfathered in.

The lower IS the firearm, the rest are accessories, including the upper.

That is the way I understood it. That is why I asked if none of the other parts are registered meaning you can buy them at any time to finish your AR.

 

[wesser1]

That is the way I understood it. That is why I asked if none of the other parts are registered meaning you can buy them at any time to finish your AR.

Yup, you can buy them after Oct 1. They're not regulated. You just cannot buy the most important part (according to the guv'ment) after Oct 1 -- The lower receiver. If you buy an AR-15 lower before Oct 1, you own a grandfathered regulated AR-15 firearm as far as the state is concerned.

 

[phx223]

I have no idea why this is still being discussed. If you own a LOWER RECEIVER, you can build it into anything you want after Oct 1 because you are on the books has owning a regulated "assault long gun" and are grandfathered in.

The lower IS the firearm, the rest are accessories, including the upper.

The issue was with the federal ban in 94, where any lower built into a weapon after the ban had to be built into a post ban configuration (you have to have something to grandfather).

Bring that to MD under current laws and a lower is regulated. But depending how they treat lowers in the future (can you build an HBAR?), you might be stuck building an HBAR without the ability to lawfully change it into another configuration. All the parts are there, just like 94-04, but you wont be able to use them lawfully.

On the flip side, there are those that say that only complete HBAR's can be bought and lowers will be made illegal, and in that case you are gtg.

But there is no certainty either way, and that's why there is an opinon out there to build up your lower (LBK's can be had for 120) and slap it on a buddies upper and bam, you have a regulated rifle that forevermore will be a rifle.

 

[wesser1]

The issue was with the federal ban in 94, where any lower built into a weapon after the ban had to be built into a post ban configuration (you have to have something to grandfather).

Bring that to MD under current laws and a lower is regulated. But depending how they treat lowers in the future (can you build an HBAR?), you might be stuck building an HBAR without the ability to lawfully change it into another configuration. All the parts are there, just like 94-04, but you wont be able to use them lawfully.

On the flip side, there are those that say that only complete HBAR's can be bought and lowers will be made illegal, and in that case you are gtg.

But there is no certainty either way, and that's why there is an opinon out there to build up your lower (LBK's can be had for 120) and slap it on a buddies upper and bam, you have a regulated rifle that forevermore will be a rifle.

How do they (police) prove it either way? It's pretty much impossible to enforce if that is even the law. But it's not spelled out that way in SB281 anyway, so it isn't the law. If my memory serves me correctly, it says you can possess regulated long guns after Oct 1 as long as they were purchased before Oct 1. And a lower is a regulated firearm (long gun).

 

[ThatGuy179]

Like i said. Go buy a bunch of lowers and have fun building.

 

[MDLiberty]

there is no way to prove/disprove when it was built so get your lowers now and build what you want later.

 

[mac1_131]

on second thought, there probably is some truth in what markp is saying

when you buy a stripped lower, even though it is regulated, I believe the paperwork says "receiver" and not rifle.

if it is not a rifle (yet), it is not yet a firearm that is about to be banned

of course it would be unenforceable. they would have to prove somehow you built it after the date, or somehow know it was a receiver one day, then a banned firearm the next day

so if you lay awake at night worrying about such things, I think the safest bet is as markp says and build it now if it is to be a banned configuration, or build it later as a configuration that is not banned (HBAR)

maybe there is a market now for shot out uppers?? as placeholders for your lowers??

 

[Maxsplat]

I was actually wondering the same thing. I've been wanting to build/purchase an AR-15 and AR-10 ever since the possibility of not being able to came up. So now I'm considering a few lowers and build them a piece at a time. I'm under the impression that you can still finish your build though. I'll talk to my FFL and get their thoughts. Granted I know this won't matter in court.

Also it's not like you re-register the firearm after you finish your build once it's complete. So that has to mean something somewhere doesn't it?

 

[Markp]

I have no idea why this is still being discussed. If you own a LOWER RECEIVER, you can build it into anything you want after Oct 1 because you are on the books has owning a regulated "assault long gun" and are grandfathered in.

The lower IS the firearm, the rest are accessories, including the upper.

The lower IS a FIREARM, it is NOT a regulated ASSAULT WEAPON.

Yup, you can buy them after Oct 1. They're not regulated. You just cannot buy the most important part (according to the guv'ment) after Oct 1 -- The lower receiver. If you buy an AR-15 lower before Oct 1, you own a grandfathered regulated AR-15 firearm as far as the state is concerned.

NO! The receiver, although transferred as a regulated firearm is not an assault long gun, assault pistol, or a copy cat weapon until it meets the definition of such.

How do they (police) prove it either way? It's pretty much impossible to enforce if that is even the law. But it's not spelled out that way in SB281 anyway, so it isn't the law. If my memory serves me correctly, it says you can possess regulated long guns after Oct 1 as long as they were purchased before Oct 1. And a lower is a regulated firearm (long gun).

there is no way to prove/disprove when it was built so get your lowers now and build what you want later.

This is true there is no way of proving any of this or enforcing any of this. Does a falling tree make a sound if no one is there?

on second thought, there probably is some truth in what markp is saying

when you buy a stripped lower, even though it is regulated, I believe the paperwork says "receiver" and not rifle.

if it is not a rifle (yet), it is not yet a firearm that is about to be banned

of course it would be unenforceable. they would have to prove somehow you built it after the date, or somehow know it was a receiver one day, then a banned firearm the next day

so if you lay awake at night worrying about such things, I think the safest bet is as markp says and build it now if it is to be a banned configuration, or build it later as a configuration that is not banned (HBAR)

maybe there is a market now for shot out uppers?? as placeholders for your lowers??

It's all academic, because the law is so ridiculous as to be unenforceable, remember, only you law abiding citizens need to obey it.

 

[b00sh]

It's all academic, because the law is so ridiculous as to be unenforceable, remember, only you law abiding citizens need to obey it.

but it's for the children!