Time to draw a line in the sand.

[yotaboy24]

There is not a good way to fix this problem anymore. Maryland is going to pass this bill. John brown said in 1859 that he was sure there was no other way to fix the problem with slavery except with blood and I'm getting the feeling it will come to that again IF we stick to our guns. If we turn them in, we deserve everything we have coming to us. Hell for that matter we won't be worthy of the right to have them or to even call ourselves Americans. I'm not advocating violence, but with these tyrants in charge, all of them not just democrats, we will keep going down.

 

[uneven]

Let's slow down a little. There's a time for pitchforks and torches, tar and feathers, and running people out of town. We aren't there yet.

Yes, it's always best to wait until after the nuke is dropped to prepare for it.

 

[EL1227]

But, but, but ...

There is not a good way to fix this problem anymore. Maryland is going to pass this bill. John brown said in 1859 that he was sure there was no other way to fix the problem with slavery except with blood and I'm getting the feeling it will come to that again IF we stick to our guns. If we turn them in, we deserve everything we have coming to us. Hell for that matter we won't be worthy of the right to have them or to even call ourselves Americans. I'm not advocating violence, but with these tyrants in charge, all of them not just democrats, we will keep going down.

Is there a third way ???

When all else fails ...

The soap box (really where we are now), the ballot box (which would include referendum), the jury box (including SCOTUS), and the ammo box, BUT ... before we get to that last step, what about civil disobedience ?

When all else fails ...

What would happen if every law abiding, gun owning Maryland citizen just refused to register; publically, by name, en masse ? Would there be an outcry from the freedom loving states saying "let my people go" ? Would Congress intervene ? Would Rand Paul launch into another filibuster ? Would there be enough law enforcement and jails to arrest and incarcerate each and every one of us ? Or, would they resort to an unlawful seizure of assets in lieu of arrests ?

Sorry, I was channeling Judge Andrew Napolitano ...

 

[Schwabe]

Let's slow down a little. There's a time for pitchforks and torches, tar and feathers, and running people out of town. We aren't there yet. The anti-2a people have been plotting for a while, and so must we. Here's my plan, feel free to copy it.
1. I won't be participating in any new gun control measures. I'm not registering jack, and I'm not getting fingerprinted. If someone asks you to do something stupid, do you do it? Of course not.
2. I'll be donating money to whoever sues Maryland over this stuff, which will hopefully be the SAF and master jedi Gura.
3. I'll be volunteering time and money to remove anti-2a politicians from office. We need some turnover in Annapolis, even if we're replacing liberals with liberals. They need to know that screwing with gun owners means a loss of employment.
4. Leave the state.

+1 I am with this guy ...

 

[Mr H]

Is there a third way ???

When all else fails ...

The soap box (really where we are now), the ballot box (which would include referendum), the jury box (including SCOTUS), and the ammo box, BUT ... before we get to that last step, what about civil disobedience ?

When all else fails ...

What would happen if every law abiding, gun owning Maryland citizen just refused to register; publically, by name, en masse ? Would there be an outcry from the freedom loving states saying "let my people go" ? Would Congress intervene ? Would Rand Paul launch into another filibuster ? Would there be enough law enforcement and jails to arrest and incarcerate each and every one of us ? Or, would they resort to an unlawful seizure of assets in lieu of arrests ?

Sorry, I was channeling Judge Andrew Napolitano ...

We both know the bolded above will be their route when asking nicely fails!!

But, you are correct... We are still on [the edge of] "Box One", and cognitive, activistic patience has to be our rule for the time being.

Starting now, the focus on our legislators needs to be threefold...

Keep hammering them about Constitutional Overreach (and not just about 2A).

Remind them that they are raping the pockets and Rights of the 2/3 (or more) of Marylanders who can least afford ALL of the things they are pushing (gun control, gas taxes, wind farms, you name it).

Make sure they understand they WILL be held accountable by their constituents, as we move from Box One to Box Two.

 

[shortnfluffy(gummy'swife)]

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson

 

[Lightning]

I completely agree. Let's all keep our heads and leave our guns at home. The game is not over by any means. And even if MD keeps being stubborn, the federal courts will be in this fight before the AG knows what hit him. In the meantime, keep your powder dry, your heads screwed on straight and chill, as my teenagers like to tell me. There is lots going on right now in the legal world. Acts of emotion could really hurt the cause in the federal courts.

Excellent points....

 

[tonytheman]

Ok let me ask this question. What do you think would happen if 10,000 men and women showed up in Annapolis armed with open carry long rifles, with signs that said something along these lines. WE WILL DIE BEFORE WE WILL GIVE UP OUR GUNS. YOU CAN TRY AND TAKE MY AR_15. I mean how many people had to die for freedom of speech. I truly am ready i know there has to be others that feel the same way and if you dont feel the same way well give me one good reason why you dont.

 

[Mr H]

You ready for another Kent State???

Most of us are not. Why??

Because we're not to that point yet, and will not be unless/until they actually begin forceful confiscations.

Deep breaths, and use the system to our benefit.

 

[Old Salty Dog]

You may not like what you are about to read and may be offended but, so be it.
I'm as frustrated as the next person, I grew up in the state of Oklahoma where all 77 counties went Red in the last 2 Presidential elections. Every fiber in my being wants to move back there but, I love the life I have here with my family and friends and I want to preserve it and make it better. I believe one of the biggest problems we have here in this state is the political message from both parties. The liberal message says, "we are doing this for the common good..., these are common sense measures..., we are giving you free this and free that..., we are fighting for you..., etc, etc...". There is little to no Conservative message from our leaders.

I also believe until recently, I have been the biggest problem. I have been among the many of us who are content to sit around and be complacent until something like a 2nd Amendment infringement hits us square in the teeth. I've been guilty of that. I've told myself that I don't have time to make a fuss and be out there going door to door or, being vocal about my beliefs for fear of a confrontation or looking foolish in a debate. I've looked around to see all the little things that we have ceded to the state with little or no fight and I want to vomit.
Recently, in this last election cycle, I decided to stop complaining and whining to the choir, I made up my mind to take my conservative beliefs and craft a message based on them and am now being vocal about them. I am no longer concerned about fitting in at the office or with my kids swim team parents or whatever. That's what too many of our politicians do when they get to Washington, they want to fit in and be adored. The funny thing is, I haven't lost any friends or been ostracized from any group whether organized or not.
I just inform people and ask them how they truly feel about these things. For instance,do you know how many people in this state, both liberal and conservative, are ignorant about the laws that get passed? When you tell them about crossdressers being allowed to use the same bathrooms at the same time as your wives and daughters, they are outraged. When you tell them to really take a look at their paycheck and see how much is being stolen from them in the name of compassion or "free" services they get angry. When you tell them how they are being told they can't defend themselves in their own home from the thugs the liberal judges continually let slide through the legal system they get angry. When you tell them these same judges will throw the book at them for having a magazine that holds more rounds than they deem necessary or, they didn't get a permit to cut down a tree in their own yard, they are outraged. Many of these folks begin to look at how they have voted in the past and they change.
It's remarkable how people change when given the facts in a calm and winsome way.

Another thing is, I can't be concerned with just the 2nd Amendment, which is HUGE (a big "Thank You" to everyone who has been in this fight), but I need to be concerned and vocal about free speech, freedom of religion, out of control government spending, high taxes, entitlement programs, gerrymandering, illegal immigration, defense of marriage, pro-life, street gangs, illegal drug trafficking, and others. (This is my list and I do not apologize for it)
The way things change in a state and a nation is at our level, the citizen's level, not at a politician's level. The politician in office is already there with their belief system and agenda, they ain't changing their stripes. We as citizen's have the responsibility to make our voices heard among our friends and neighbors on an everyday basis wherever we go. We have the responsibility to nominate and elect those who share our beliefs or, dare I say, even run for office ourselves. This is what "We The People" means.

I had to ask myself if I was really and truly involved in this great American experiment of Freedom and Liberty and sadly, I was not.

What is the implied next question?

p.s. I appreciate this opportunity to make my thoughts known.

Excellent post! I have never been politically active before now, but I do believe that this legislation has awakened the proverbial sleeping giant - many others I met at Annapolis on March 1st had never done anything like that before either. That says something, that for so many people this was the first time they had ever been involved.

We must first change ourselves if we expect to change the world. I think it will be impossible for me to go 'back to sleep' now that I am involved in the process. If about 30-40,000 more of us become politically active, we WILL see Maryland start to move in a different direction.

I think the talk here of civil war is beyond counterproductive. It makes great fodder for the antis and could lead potential allies into believing we're not worth listening to. We are outnumbered in Maryland, and we do need as many on our side as we can get. I hope it's not too late.

 

[EL1227]

Ok let me ask this question. What do you think would happen if 10,000 men and women showed up in Annapolis armed with open carry long rifles, with signs that said something along these lines. WE WILL DIE BEFORE WE WILL GIVE UP OUR GUNS. YOU CAN TRY AND TAKE MY AR_15. I mean how many people had to die for freedom of speech. I truly am ready i know there has to be others that feel the same way and if you dont feel the same way well give me one good reason why you dont.

Rather than temper your suggestion with an answer, I'll quote Oliver Cromwell.

"Put your trust in God, my boys, and keep your powder dry!"​

You might want to also look at Mr H's commentary on my suggestion of civil disobedience. We're still a LONG way off from the frustrated fever that you are feeling. In fact, if someone were to independently act out those frustrations, it will signal the death knell for 2A and the rest of our freedoms in the PRofMD forever.

 

[Old Salty Dog]

This post is a good post.

OP, you're 9 posts in to your involvement in MSF and are somewhat asking people to suggest things that may not follow md's law. Before going off on the "line in the sand" tangent, may I ask you a question? Were you one of the 50 or so people I've seen in annapolis on gun-bill day over the past few years or are you suddenly pissed off because of what's happening this year? The fact is, we have a system of government in which we can make change, but it requires people to step up and work for it.

In much the same way people shouldn't expect a free paycheck without work, we shouldn't expect to get our way in local govt without work. The fact is that our side has just rolled over and refused to fight back for a long time now. The battered gun owner's syndrome has been strong in this state. This current legislative session is the most activity md has seen from our side in at least 20 years(from the accounts of people that worked in naptown for a long time). We're at a good place now to get these few thousands of people who finally showed up in annapolis to become engaged in polyticks come election time. Hopefully some will decide to run for office and challenge incumbents. Hopefully others will carry signs, donate to campaigns and put in man-hours to help out gun-friendly politicians(especially in our new gerrymandered lines).

We deserve the govt we have. Hopefully people are fed up enough to do something about it now. It's pointless to whine about drawing lines in the sand and throwing tantrums because we're not getting our way in politics if we're not actually doing anything in politics(current session being the outlier in a looooong series of data).

Another excellent post. I'm in. Happy to carry signs, sandwich boards, man booths at shows, donate to pro-2A folks who run for office and continue emailing, calling and writing snail mail letters.

The next "line in the sand" is the 2014 election. Let's get organized now so we can make a bigger difference then!

 

[Mr H]

Excellent post! I have never been politically active before now, but I do believe that this legislation has awakened the proverbial sleeping giant. Many others who went to Annapolis on March 1st had never done anything like that before either. We must first change ourselves if we expect to change the world. I think it will be impossible for me to go 'back to sleep' now that I am involved in the process. If about 30-40,000 more of us become politically active, we WILL see Maryland start to move in a different direction.

I think the talk here of civil war is beyond counterproductive. It makes great fodder for the antis and could lead potential allies into believing we're not worth listening to. We are outnumbered in Maryland, and we do need as many on our side as we can get. I hope it's not too late.

You cause me to think of a few important points...

The great majority of Marylanders fall into two general groups... IGM, and GMM.

"I Got Mine" folks are content with their lot, know their interests and the rules play well together, and they're happy to let the PTB go on their merry way. Most gun owners fall into this group, and generally offer no threat or resistance to Annapolis..

"Give Me Mine" residents are more than willing to live off the government's largesse, and form the major constituency of the rulers in Annapolis. The line I've heard that represents this best is, "No one will vote against Santa Claus." By definition, these people also offer no threat or resistance to Annapolis.

The "awakened" people in Maryland, who are now seeing that they must find their hind legs and rise upon them, have always been so few as to be negligible to our keepers. We are--however slowly--organizing, speaking out, and showing our collective teeth. Some very few of our legislators who were not already on our side are seeing the rising tide, and are heeding the need. The problem here is, there are still about 60% of them who are so desperately tied to the 'machine' that they are reluctant to actually represent us!

The trend right now (apart from the obvious 2A assault) is to resist incumbency. This is a good thing... a VERY good thing. But, it isn't yet enough. Yes, we are seeing several hundred people changing affiliations, thousands showing up in Annapolis, and possibly tens of thousands in communication with their representatives... and yet, despite this, we are only a drop in the statewide bucket.

The word needs to spread beyond just us... we need volunteers to be IN Annapolis making their presence felt continually... and we need people to commit to displacing the career politicians, to have a seat at the table and actually use OUR voice to bring Maryland back from the brink.

All I have are words. And I'm using them as best I know how.

I want to know what the rest of you have to offer.

 

[Lagmeister1950]

What?

Oh really? so you havent figured it out yet? They have the control because we allowed them to pass laws that protect them.........wow you need to study about government at all levels, next election????? IN MARYLAND are you joking? ok...........

I consider myself fairly well educated in both civics and syntax.
But, I have no idea what you are trying to say.

What do think I was posting? What do you think I haven't figured out?

And finally, what in the world do you think I am missing regarding the government at all levels?

 

[pro1742]

This post is a good post.

OP, you're 9 posts in to your involvement in MSF and are somewhat asking people to suggest things that may not follow md's law. Before going off on the "line in the sand" tangent, may I ask you a question? Were you one of the 50 or so people I've seen in annapolis on gun-bill day over the past few years or are you suddenly pissed off because of what's happening this year? The fact is, we have a system of government in which we can make change, but it requires people to step up and work for it.

In much the same way people shouldn't expect a free paycheck without work, we shouldn't expect to get our way in local govt without work. The fact is that our side has just rolled over and refused to fight back for a long time now. The battered gun owner's syndrome has been strong in this state. This current legislative session is the most activity md has seen from our side in at least 20 years(from the accounts of people that worked in naptown for a long time). We're at a good place now to get these few thousands of people who finally showed up in annapolis to become engaged in polyticks come election time. Hopefully some will decide to run for office and challenge incumbents. Hopefully others will carry signs, donate to campaigns and put in man-hours to help out gun-friendly politicians(especially in our new gerrymandered lines).

We deserve the govt we have. Hopefully people are fed up enough to do something about it now. It's pointless to whine about drawing lines in the sand and throwing tantrums because we're not getting our way in politics if we're not actually doing anything in politics(current session being the outlier in a looooong series of data).

You make a great point! However, its not really important as to when he woke up to whats going on, whats important is that he is awake and on the right side of the issue.

Make no mistake....the day will come (sooner than later) when that line will be drawn in the sand. I believe (sadly) this legislation will go through and somewhat intact. Even now, we are too focused on the surface to whats going on with the infringement on our 2A rights. We need to start disecting whats really going on and the real motivation behind the disarming of American Citizens. The architecture for all this has been years in the making and alot larger than most of us can imagine. As Bongino said...its not about Gun Control....its about population control and he could not have been more correct!

I do agree that you have to fight the good fight using all the legal means that our Republic will allow. But our Republic is broken, corrupt and possibly doomed for failure. We have allowed people to participate that have no skin in the game. A large portion of our population are under-educated, and un-informed to the issues. We live in an entertainment society where a large part of our population are more pre-occupied with who's on American Idol and whats on their IPOD, or IPAD rather than the fact that their Constitutional Rights are being stripped away right before there very eyes!

 

[gedelea]

Some of the antis would love nothing more than for a group of pro gun owners to show up in Annapolis with guns. The new crews would capture everything (for once) and would spin it as the crazy pro gun folks are dangerous and they would use this as even more fodder against the pro 2A movement.

We are fighting a 12 round fight and to win you just keep hammering away at them with coordinated events, emails, calls, face to faces, legal challenges and behind the scene efforts by those who know the system. We need to exploit their weaknesses and find ways to compromise them where they are strong. This is an asymmetrical effort that we are undertaking... we need to use unconventional approaches to defeating this bill and the people behind it. We are smaller, smarter, more agile and most of all we are on the side of truth and righteousness. They know deep down inside they are one the wrong side of the argument because they can never back up their position with facts.The only way we lose is to give up.

 

[pbharvey]

Because we're not to that point yet, and will not be unless/until they actually begin forceful confiscations.

I'll play the Devil's advocate: is there a big difference between legislation that makes you a felon if you don't (re)register a firearm you currently own and the sheriff knocking on your door with a warrant to confiscate your firearms?

 

[RustinRifle55]

When the bills get passes and signed then Richard Rothschild Carroll Co. has a plan. If local governments will follow his plan then all gun legislation enforcement would be left up to MSP. Based the current background check wait time I doubt MSP can do the enforcement. As Rothschild pointed out a local jurisdiction such as Carroll Co. can tell all other police agencies to stay out except MSP. Fed's will not have any rights to enforce MD laws.

 

[Beemerguy]

Just ignore unconstitutional infringements and live your life as a responsible, free citizen.
Unconstitutional "laws" are not laws at all.
Noncompliance is the only valid response when politicians choose to ignore their oaths of office and punish good citizens for exercising our basic constitutional rights.
Like I said many times before, it's not my fault homicidal nutcases like to kill people in gun-free zones.
I will not be blamed, I will not be punished, and I will not cooperate with any illegal new gun bans or gun control laws.
Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer.

A lot of folks share your view. What will O'Malley do if this new law passes, and at the end of the registration period, MSP reports that 25 assault weapons have been registered across the entire state?

 

[mig201]

I would not go for a ballot issue. It may well cost us money, but our best bet is still the court system. Supreme Court may be the last stop, hopefully we can do it combined with gun owners of several states