Thoughts on confiscation, if fire-arm is used between locations...

[swinokur]

What others think is of little consequence. The law is what matters, not opinions.

Unless the poster can provide a legal cite, it's a total waste of time to see what their thoughts on the matter are IMO anyway.

Just my .02 like the lion on the Food Lion commercials

 

[Threeband]

They can take YOU as evidence!

Just give them the damn gun. If you ever shoot someone, that gun will be the least of your hassles.

You should have a backup, anyway.

 

[OrangeAgent27]

The argument makes no sense. If the firearm is unloaded and locked away in your vehicle's trunk, then having time to retrieve, load, and use it means you have plenty of time to exit a dangerous situation. In other words, retrieving and loading the firearm means going on the offensive in most any circumstance, as opposed to self-defense.

/thread

 

[Half-cocked]

If you ever find yourself involved in a shooting inside your home, I somehow doubt that turning over the firearm to the police for evidence is going to be "optional" on your part.

Nor will it be the worst of your worries.

 

[Name Taken]

They will be taking the firearm regardless if you "hand it over" or not. There's this little thing wrote into the 4th amendment about search warrants.

The firearm is likely going to be the least of your worries.

 

[Sharpeneddark]

This is where I have the most confusion; I recall reading on numerous threads here that, strictly for HOME-related self-defense shootings, you are in no way legally obligated to give the firearm to a LEO, if for some reason they ask for it. Is that incorrect?

As for the whole retrieving it being deemed as offensive/why not drive away, that makes complete sense.

IANAL or a cop, but I'd think it largely depends on the officers at the scene, and possibly higher up cops and/or the DA. If anyone in that chain thinks you committed murder 2 instead of practicing the castle law, then your gun is going with them. Possibly the gun is going with them anyways if it is even considered to be a legitimate self-defense case. Maybe for ballistics, maybe just to confiscate them in case you turn out to be a whacko. Who knows?

 

[swinokur]

The gun is going with them no matter what IMO. An investigation of the facts may take longer than the time the officers are in the house.

After all the mass shootings by people with mental issues, IMO there is zero chance that gun is staying in your home.

 

[1time]

The gun is getting taken as evidence whether you give consent or they get a search warrant. Even when police shoot someone or even at someone their gun is taken at evidence.

JP Enterprises has a we got you back program where they offer a loaner rifle when an officers personally owned duty rifle is used in the line of duty and taken as evidence.

 

[Ragnar]

You're not allowed to carry a loaded handgun off your property or business without a permit. As soon as you load the gun outside your home/property or business, even if it's to protect against something bad happening, you are in violation. Expect that your gun will be taken as evidence AGAINST YOU.

 

[marko12]

First of all your gun doesn't have to be in a "locked box" just unloaded and would be legal to be within your reach. So in case a life threatening incident should occur you would have time to protect yourself and your family.

But the real answer to the OP question is a big YES and if he asks for your shoes, shorts or panties the answer is still a big YES !

 

[rico903]

Could be worse than described. Many instances where a home owner has used a gun in SD and when the cops come ask if there are any other firearms in the house and take them as well. Basically legalized theft as you will probably not get them back. Tell them no and they search and find them and it's now lying to LEO. A truly stacked deck.

 

[Inigoes]

OP,

If you are travelling and see a crime occur.

The best thing you can do is be a good witness.

If your life is in danger (not the store clerk, yours). Then you gotta do what you have to to survive.

If you are involved in a shooting, plan to be treated as a criminal, and have a good lawyer on speed dial.

 

[alucard0822]

It's a fine line between screwing yourself and coming away clean. There is common law where self-defense can take precident over other firearms laws, say you were going to another residence, range, or "displaying a collection" it could be argued you opened the unloaded cased firearm, loaded it, and used it lawfully. You are not required to say anything, although more than likely the firearm used will be confiscated at the scene as evidence, probably grounds for a warrant if you use one for HD, then refuse to hand it over as evidence. You could basically invoke the 5th, refuse to say anything or turn over any evidence without a warrant, and have a lawyer deal with everything, probably a better way than telling police everything, and hoping they "help you out" as they usually promise. There is a lot of room in-between though, and it is a good idea to talk to a lawyer and at least get a card to keep in your wallet as part of a "self defense plan". You cannot lie to the police, but you do not have to answer their questions or speak to them either, the police are investigating you, and are looking for evidence to charge you with a crime, they might accuse you of making their job tough, but you really want to make that particular job impossible. There is a reason good people end up in jail, and career criminals go free all the time, many criminals know their rights, police interrogation methods, and the system, honest citizens don't. There is no reason a citizen forced to defend themselves shouldn't have all the knowledge and tools to make charges and a conviction as small of a possibility as possible.

I lawfully carry and live in PA, so there are differences, and I haven't explored much about using a firearm outside the home in MD for defense, but if my life is in danger, I will use any means necessary to stop the threat, law be damned. The simple plan is to carry tools lawfully, then protect yourself with the best tool you have available, turn over the firearm used if asked, do not consent to a search, including parts of a house not pertinent to a home defense scenario, do not turn over anything else, speak to a lawyer before police, and hopefully long before the incident occurs, and make sure your family knows and follows the plan as well.

 

[DaemonAssassin]

In MD, You are required to retreat if you are not at home. Legally you have to attempt to retreat, before you can defend yourself.

This "what if" BS is really going over the top these past few weeks. OP, if you are transporting it as you say, you will not be able to get it out of the container and bring it to bear, while abiding by the RETREAT portion of what I posted above. Your "what if" is in essence a "Can I use this to get as close as possible to CCW, without having to attempt to get MD CCW because I don't have G&S?" question.

Next time, ask a lawyer instead of asking on here. You'll get better advice by going to a lawyer.

 

[Yellowhand]

I think the DA's stance would be if you had time to think about loading the gun and then bring it to bear instead of retreating you would be charged with pre-meditated murder. As to following LE orders, never argue with LE...you can't win as they have the authority to carry out their duty as they see fit. If it's wrong then that is what the courts are for. I would not and have never been disrespectful to LE nor would I resist or hinder them in their duty; to do so is asking for a world of hurt.

 

[BIGCHRISS197]

Post #34 & #35 are spot on, if you find yourself the victim of a crime, you may also become a victim of the system based on your decisions in the incident

 

[Blacksmith101]

Example:
I travel from Baltimore to a family member's house in Washington Co. on weekends, and as I am a Designated Collector, bring a pistol with me during the trip for "private exhibition." MD Criminal Law 4-203 states that this is fine and dandy; the firearm is in a lock-box while transporting, magazine is loaded but out of the firearm.

Please point out where 4-203 says this is "...fine and dandy." As I read 4-203 it refers in section 5 to a "...a bona fide gun collector..." however I see no definition that says a "Designated Collector" and a "bona fide gun collector" are interchangeable. If you are aware of any legal opinion or case law that supports this position I would be interested in the citation.

I am a MD Designated Collector and consider myself a "Bona Fide Gun Collector" and do on occasion transport parts of my collection for exhibition and for use in firearms training so I would be very interested in a firm legal definition of "bona fide gun collector". Maryland 4-203 is quoted below for reference.

Maryland Criminal Law Section 4-203
Article - Criminal Law

§ 4-203.

(a) (1) Except as provided in subsection (b) of this section, a person may not:
(i) wear, carry, or transport a handgun, whether concealed or open, on or about the person;
(ii) wear, carry, or knowingly transport a handgun, whether concealed or open, in a vehicle traveling on a road or parking lot generally used by the public, highway, waterway, or airway of the State;
(iii) violate item (i) or (ii) of this paragraph while on public school property in the State; or
(iv) violate item (i) or (ii) of this paragraph with the deliberate purpose of injuring or killing another person.

(2) There is a rebuttable presumption that a person who transports a handgun under paragraph (1)(ii) of this subsection transports the handgun knowingly.

(b) This section does not prohibit:
(1) the wearing, carrying, or transporting of a handgun by a person who is on active assignment engaged in law enforcement, is authorized at the time and under the circumstances to wear, carry, or transport the handgun as part of the person's official equipment, and is:
(i) a law enforcement official of the United States, the State, or a county or city of the State;
(ii) a member of the armed forces of the United States or of the National Guard on duty or traveling to or from duty;
(iii) a law enforcement official of another state or subdivision of another state temporarily in this State on official business;
(iv) a correctional officer or warden of a correctional facility in the State;
(v) a sheriff or full-time assistant or deputy sheriff of the State; or
(vi) a temporary or part-time sheriff's deputy;

(2) the wearing, carrying, or transporting of a handgun by a person to whom a permit to wear, carry, or transport the handgun has been issued under Title 5, Subtitle 3 of the Public Safety Article;

(3) the carrying of a handgun on the person or in a vehicle while the person is transporting the handgun to or from the place of legal purchase or sale, or to or from a bona fide repair shop, or between bona fide residences of the person, or between the bona fide residence and place of business of the person, if the business is operated and owned substantially by the person if each handgun is unloaded and carried in an enclosed case or an enclosed holster;

(4) the wearing, carrying, or transporting by a person of a handgun used in connection with an organized military activity, a target shoot, formal or informal target practice, sport shooting event, hunting, a Department of Natural Resources-sponsored firearms and hunter safety class, trapping, or a dog obedience training class or show, while the person is engaged in, on the way to, or returning from that activity if each handgun is unloaded and carried in an enclosed case or an enclosed holster;

(5) the moving by a bona fide gun collector of part or all of the collector's gun collection from place to place for public or private exhibition if each handgun is unloaded and carried in an enclosed case or an enclosed holster;

(6) the wearing, carrying, or transporting of a handgun by a person on real estate that the person owns or leases or where the person resides or within the confines of a business establishment that the person owns or leases;

(7) the wearing, carrying, or transporting of a handgun by a supervisory employee:
(i) in the course of employment;
(ii) within the confines of the business establishment in which the supervisory employee is employed; and
(iii) when so authorized by the owner or manager of the business establishment; or

(8) the carrying or transporting of a signal pistol or other visual distress signal approved by the United States Coast Guard in a vessel on the waterways of the State or, if the signal pistol or other visual distress signal is unloaded and carried in an enclosed case, in a vehicle.

(c) (1) A person who violates this section is guilty of a misdemeanor and on conviction is subject to the penalties provided in this subsection.

(2) If the person has not previously been convicted under this section, § 4-204 of this subtitle, or § 4-101 or § 4-102 of this title:
(i) except as provided in item (ii) of this paragraph, the person is subject to imprisonment for not less than 30 days and not exceeding 3 years or a fine of not less than $250 and not exceeding $2,500 or both; or
(ii) if the person violates subsection (a)(1)(iii) of this section, the person shall be sentenced to imprisonment for not less than 90 days.

(3) (i) If the person has previously been convicted once under this section, § 4-204 of this subtitle, or § 4-101 or § 4-102 of this title:

1. except as provided in item 2 of this subparagraph, the person is subject to imprisonment for not less than 1 year and not exceeding 10 years; or

2. if the person violates subsection (a)(1)(iii) of this section, the person is subject to imprisonment for not less than 3 years and not exceeding 10 years.

(ii) The court may not impose less than the applicable minimum sentence provided under subparagraph (i) of this paragraph.

(4) (i) If the person has previously been convicted more than once under this section, § 4-204 of this subtitle, or § 4-101 or § 4-102 of this title, or of any combination of these crimes:

1. except as provided in item (2) of this subparagraph, the person is subject to imprisonment for not less than 3 years and not exceeding 10 years; or

2. A. if the person violates subsection (a)(1)(iii) of this section, the person is subject to imprisonment for not less than 5 years and not exceeding 10 years; or

B. if the person violates subsection (a)(1)(iv) of this section, the person is subject to imprisonment for not less than 5 years and not exceeding 10 years.

(ii) The court may not impose less than the applicable minimum sentence provided under subparagraph (i) of this paragraph.

 

[rico903]

As a DC myself, I'd also like to know what constitutes a "bona fide collector". If I own 100,200,300 guns or whatever, am I a bona fide collector or just a gun nut and a public threat?

 

[DaemonAssassin]

As a DC myself, I'd also like to know what constitutes a "bona fide collector". If I own 100,200,300 guns or whatever, am I a bona fide collector or just a gun nut and a public threat?

There is no definition according to COMAR, but if you have the MDC letter, you are considered a collector. I might be wrong on that one though.

 

[Watdahec]

IANAL-----
#3 if you are legally transporting a firearm, there is no way you would have access to it while travelling. If a situation does occur follow the LEO and have your days in court.