Thinking of ditching sabots to go back to full bore bullets

[j_h_smith]

Are you hunting in MD? Sounds like you're over your antlered deer limit.

Look at his signature. Do you think that picture is used by someone who is pro 2A?

 

[Melnic]

sounds like he's talking about 2 bucks a year ago, not this recent thanksgiving weekend.

 

[wilcam47]

Just had another experience that solidifies my choice to ditch lighter sabot muzzleloader projectiles (specifically the Hornady 44 cal 240 gr xtp green sabot). Shot a big doe tonight (public land - muzzleloader only), perfect textbook broadside facing left, shot at 45 yds. She kicked, then took off with the other 5 does. She ran 30 yds left (west), turned hard right for 30 yds north, then another right for 30 yds east, then hard left and tumbled 15 yds north again before piling up against a log. All that running and she was dead less than 50 linear yds from where she started, just took the scenic route getting there.

Again as I’ve stated before I still got her, but once again with the white smoke all over I missed seeing all these maneuvers. I’ve uploaded 2 pics, this 44 cal saboted bullet barely ticked off a rib and turned hard right, apparently tumbling and tore thru the duodenum and exited the opposite side in key-hole fashion. Luckily it missed all the guts. This is the last straw with these lighter rounds. At the scene of the shot there was zero hair, blood, meat, etc... Followed her dug-up track, and after the aforementioned 3rd turn she finally started bleeding out of both sides like a paint sprayer. No blood til this point, not unlike many deer I’ve killed with this bullet. If I didn’t stumble onto the blood trail I’d have never found her, as the other does didn’t make those last 2 turns - I woulda kept along their path thinking she went with them.

Again, this load has killed every single deer I’ve thrown it towards, between 50 and 75 approx. About 80% of them tear outta there as described above, and this was the last time. Going back to the bigger 50 cal thumpers without the stupid sabots.

Top pic is the exit wound. No she was 100% NOT quartering. Bottom pic is entrance, perfect round 44 cal hole. Inside you could see the rib it deflected off.

what powder are you using? All the deer I shot with my sabots were dead within seconds of impact. Its possible that a rib deflected the bullet but that first pic is at minimum a lung/liver shot...even with one lung the deer is going to run over 100yds...Double lung shot it would have either dropped in its tracks or not far from there...

 

[outrider58]

My personal opinion is you're light on your powder. I use 3 pellets/150gr of Pyrodex pellets.

Granted, I haven't shot a BP rifle in over 5 years, but I wouldn't consider 100gr as being enough punch for my bullets.

Just one man's opinion.

I fully agree. I've been shooting 150gns Trip7 for the last 15(? or as long as I've had my Encore) years with 250gn sabots. In that time I can remember only one lost deer from that loading. Probably 90% of those deer died within eyesight.

I have recently switched to two pellets of 60gn Trip7 with a 250gn sabot. I've only shoot one deer so far and lost that deer due to a poor hit(low on front shoulder non lethal wound) so the jury's still out on that. I will say, the new combination is giving me sub-minute groups @ 100yds. As long as I do my job, I think this will be a great setup.

 

[hobiecat590]

Switched to PowerBelts years ago for similar reasons.

I only use black powder in MD, where 100 yards is a long shot on the property I hunt. Favorite load is a 295gr copper hp, over 150 grains of Pyrodex pellets. Very accurate in my TC Omega and definitely authoritative on deer inside 100 yards or so.

I also use the 295 gr cooper areo point Power Belt. (same as hp except w/ a plastic insert to improve BC.) and 2 50 gr pellets of triple 7 I find that 150 gr just makes a big mess and is not as accurate at 100 yards out of my 50 Cal Encore. 80 yard lung shot a 200lb 6 pt that traveled about 40 yards before dropping. No blood until 30 yards.

The nice thing about the Power Belts v/s Sabot is that you can load 2 rounds before having to clean via a boresnake and then accuracy from shot 3 on becomes an issues. It is also very difficult seating the PBs that last inch or so after 2 shots to the extent I get real nervous forcing a bullet past all the fouling that is much worse if you use 150gr instead of 100 gr.

 

[BossmanPJ]

Can you tell me why in the world you'd have a picture of a baby playing with a firearm in your signature? What are you trying to say with that? That's got to be the most irresponsible thing I've seen on this forum in a LONG TIME.

Please consider removing that picture.

That is unsettling. Not sure why anyone would post that.

The quote in the signature is the interpretation of the OMERTÀ code of silence by Randy Blythe from Lamb of God. Kick ass song.

 

[John from MD]

Try a 370 grain Maxi Ball with 80gns of FF or Pyro RS. I find that deer don't run far when hit with that slug. At fifty yards 80 does the trick, if you need to go to 100, just up it to 110 gns. Physics does come into play with these big lead slugs though.

 

[AlBeight]

I fully agree. I've been shooting 150gns Trip7 for the last 15(? or as long as I've had my Encore) years with 250gn sabots. In that time I can remember only one lost deer from that loading. Probably 90% of those deer died within eyesight.

I have recently switched to two pellets of 60gn Trip7 with a 250gn sabot. I've only shoot one deer so far and lost that deer due to a poor hit(low on front shoulder non lethal wound) so the jury's still out on that. I will say, the new combination is giving me sub-minute groups @ 100yds. As long as I do my job, I think this will be a great setup.

I’m not opposed to upping the charge to 150 gr, or at least more than 100. Back in 97 ish (+/-?) I started with this rifle at 90 gr with the Hornady Great Plains 385. Shortly found the sweet spot with this bullet with 100 gr. Pyrodex. No problem with roughly 1” or so groups at 100, and hammered every deer I shot for about 2 years. Then the sabot craze hit, and I of course switched over because it was “better”. Didn’t play much with it, kept the same powder charge and changed the bullet to the Hornady XTP green sabot, 44 cal 240 gr. (Though I did try 110 gr to not much success). Few scope adjustments & the groups tightened up and been killing deer, like I said probably 50-75 deer with this load, ever since. I’ve had a few less than perfect hits in that span, but most were accurately placed and haven’t lost one - in some cases only by blind luck and determination in tracking. None really went further than 100 yds, but in thick woods or with multiple intersecting valleys it’s damn hard to know where to start looking sometimes, often without any blood trails for the 1st 40 or 50 yds. If all were in wide open hardwoods or cornfields I would’ve probably seen everyone expire, I just don’t hunt those types of properties very often.

I emailed Remington to ask them if I can use the 150 gr charge in my rifle. I don’t really expect to hear back from them, but I had to try. Is anyone out there using a mid-90’s Remington 700ML, with a 150 gr Pyrodex charge? Safely? If I can do it, I’ll try the powder charge upgrade, then maybe return to the big bullets. A perfect double lung shot shouldn’t mean a 75-100 yd tracking job.

Update: Found my owner’s manual, they say do not exceed the powder load chart they provide, which the max is 120 gr. So I’ll try that then....