Thinking about a Garand

[Trekker]

Disclaimer: Yes, I have been reading previous threads and posts regarding Garands. No, I do not have a perfect memory and may ask a question that has shown up previously. Or, I may have read posts from earlier and am asking to see what the more recent experiences have been.

I have been thinking about getting a Garand lately, so I thought I would throw up some of my ponderings and questions in order to get some information and differing viewpoints. I've been working some long hours recently, but have been getting overtime for it, and have been thinking about getting a Garand with the increased income.

I want to get a decent Garand because it looks like it would be fun to shoot, I rather enjoyed a CMP match I once participated in, and I've heard a number of stories involving the Garand from my WWII grandfather. Plus, my grandfather might get a kick out of me bringing one over (he apparently had some remorse for not buying his after his service). I am not looking to get a WWII museum quality piece which would be incredible to have, but more costly and a bit concerning about taking it out to shoot. I want a good shooter which I can still admire and would consider a WWII mintage a nice bit of history.

I am leaning towards getting a CMP Garand, but wasn't certain about whether to go for the service grade or special grade. From what I gathered, the advantage of the special grade ($1020) over the service grade ($650) is a new barrel ($190) and stock ($154). However, the the cost of buying the service grade, then getting a new barrel and stock, is equal the cost of the special grade. The only difference would be the cost/effort of installing the new barrel/stock if desired. The service grade might be just fine in which case a new barrel & stock are unnecessary.

Question 1: I think I read on one of the threads that you can attach a note requesting a WWII receiver for service grade. How often does that work out?
Question 2: If I got a service grade and wanted to replace the barrel or stock, is that something I could do myself (assuming decent mechanical skill and a workbench with tools)? If not, about how much would it cost me from the gunsmith?
Question 3: I have been picking up that wear & tear shows up in the degree of muzzle/throat erosion. How quickly does this wear & tear show up with use, and how much does it effect performance?
Question 4: When I get a Garand, what sort of clean-up is necessary to make it servicable?
Question 5: I do not anticipate visiting the CMP store, so would probably order and cross my fingers. How much of a chance am I taking with quality?

It wouldn't just be a matter of getting the Garand, but also associated bits and pieces. That means .30-06 Garand ammo, cleaning tools, clips, and (for the complete setup) the bayonet. Since I am already happy with reloading .38, .357, and .45 I would expand to include .30-06 on my Rockchucker. I am a member of Izaak Walton League, but not a branch listed with CMP as a valid organization permitting purchase, so I'll probably join the Garand Collector's Association.

Question 5: How many clips is a decent supply to have on hand?
Question 6: From my pistol cartridge reloading I know steel cases are no good for reloads. Is there any cartridge types I should steer clear of for reloading .30-06? (CMP has Greek "boxer-primed", but what does that mean?)
Question 7: Unless I have a C&R license, would I have to go through an FFL?
Question 8: What sort of accuracy can a Garand get?

 

[A1Uni]

Disclaimer: Yes, I have been reading previous threads and posts regarding Garands. No, I do not have a perfect memory and may ask a question that has shown up previously. Or, I may have read posts from earlier and am asking to see what the more recent experiences have been.

I have been thinking about getting a Garand lately, so I thought I would throw up some of my ponderings and questions in order to get some information and differing viewpoints. I've been working some long hours recently, but have been getting overtime for it, and have been thinking about getting a Garand with the increased income.

I want to get a decent Garand because it looks like it would be fun to shoot, I rather enjoyed a CMP match I once participated in, and I've heard a number of stories involving the Garand from my WWII grandfather. Plus, my grandfather might get a kick out of me bringing one over (he apparently had some remorse for not buying his after his service). I am not looking to get a WWII museum quality piece which would be incredible to have, but more costly and a bit concerning about taking it out to shoot. I want a good shooter which I can still admire and would consider a WWII mintage a nice bit of history.

I am leaning towards getting a CMP Garand, but wasn't certain about whether to go for the service grade or special grade. From what I gathered, the advantage of the special grade ($1020) over the service grade ($650) is a new barrel ($190) and stock ($154). However, the the cost of buying the service grade, then getting a new barrel and stock, is equal the cost of the special grade. The only difference would be the cost/effort of installing the new barrel/stock if desired. The service grade might be just fine in which case a new barrel & stock are unnecessary.

Question 1: I think I read on one of the threads that you can attach a note requesting a WWII receiver for service grade. How often does that work out?

Sometimes, it depends on what is available and who picks your order.
Question 2: If I got a service grade and wanted to replace the barrel or stock, is that something I could do myself (assuming decent mechanical skill and a workbench with tools)? If not, about how much would it cost me from the gunsmith?

No, you cannot do it yourself. It requires special tools and skills. Orion 7 in NJ offers all sorts of M1 services. Check their price list.
Question 3: I have been picking up that wear & tear shows up in the degree of muzzle/throat erosion. How quickly does this wear & tear show up with use, and how much does it effect performance?

Appropriate gauges for chamber and throat erosion are commercially available and reasonable prices. I may be wrong, but I believe CMP checks these with "go, no-go" tools and won't ship a shot out rifle. Wear can GREATLY effect accuracy.
Question 4: When I get a Garand, what sort of clean-up is necessary to make it servicable?

From CMP? It should be ready to shoot. If you get it elsewhere and it is packed with cosmoline it will take a lot of clean up.
Question 5: I do not anticipate visiting the CMP store, so would probably order and cross my fingers. How much of a chance am I taking with quality?

Very little, less risk that almost anyplace else.
It wouldn't just be a matter of getting the Garand, but also associated bits and pieces. That means .30-06 Garand ammo, cleaning tools, clips, and (for the complete setup) the bayonet. Since I am already happy with reloading .38, .357, and .45 I would expand to include .30-06 on my Rockchucker. I am a member of Izaak Walton League, but not a branch listed with CMP as a valid organization permitting purchase, so I'll probably join the Garand Collector's Association.

Question 5: How many clips is a decent supply to have on hand?

You will need enblocs, they hold 8 rounds and are easily available. Get USA made suplus, not Chinise knock-offs that won't cycle. How many depends on how often you feel like reloading the enblocs. I just got 20 of them for about $5 each.
Question 6: From my pistol cartridge reloading I know steel cases are no good for reloads. Is there any cartridge types I should steer clear of for reloading .30-06? (CMP has Greek "boxer-primed", but what does that mean?)

It is Greek made non-corrosive surplus ammunition.Use caution reloading and only use loads optimized for the M1 or you will damage your op rod. DO NOT fire off the shelf .30-06 ammo for modern rifles through your M1.
Question 7: Unless I have a C&R license, would I have to go through an FFL?

Not through CMP, they mail em to you door.
Question 8: What sort of accuracy can a Garand get?

Tack driving given a properly functioning rifle, especially if you rebarrel it.

Good luck.

 

[tdt91]

Get the special, they are like new.

 

[honda53s]

Check the classified section. I bought one from Augie....Great seller and I thought the garand I bought from him was going to be in rougher condition..I am very pleased. great guy!

 

[Threeband]

Oh boy. Well, here goes.

First, I'd suggest you get the Service Grade. The barrel will be well within spec and good for thousands of rounds of good shooting. Bring it out to the CMP matches at Thurmont and Marriottsville, and that Service Grade will serve you well.

If only the best will do, and you care more about a guaranteed good shooter than original GI surplus, then go for the Special. They are nice.

Many of the Service Grades come with new birch replacement stocks. They seem to be pretty nice stocks, although some people don't care for the color, which many describe as "orange". I've read that the US Government issued birch replacement stocks in the 1960s that were about the same color. If you get one you can refinish it to look like walnut if you want.

Expect to do some minor wood fitting to tune the replacement stock. I'm talking about some sanding or rasping in the op-rod channel, and perhaps around the trigger group.




Question 1: I think I read on one of the threads that you can attach a note requesting a WWII receiver for service grade. How often does that work out?

I did put a note on my order, politely asking for a WWII receiver and a USGI stock if possible. I got the receiver, but a replacement stock. Back in '08, the replacements were pretty fat, and were dyed an odd brown color. I sanded it a little bit, and stained and tung-oiled it.

Anyway, they say they'll try to meet special requests from among the rifles on the top of the stack, which mean from among 10 rifles max. Note HRAs were all made in the 50s, so order a Springfield if you want a WWII receiver.

Question 2: If I got a service grade and wanted to replace the barrel or stock, is that something I could do myself (assuming decent mechanical skill and a workbench with tools)? If not, about how much would it cost me from the gunsmith?

I don't think you'll have a reason to replace the barrel for a long, long time. It would be best to have a Garand smith do it, though. The barrel has to be properly indexed, then the chamber reamed.


Question 3: I have been picking up that wear & tear shows up in the degree of muzzle/throat erosion. How quickly does this wear & tear show up with use, and how much does it effect performance?

I believe the Army expected the throat to erode by about 1 point for each thousand rounds fired. The description on the CMP web site is worst case. The Service grades have a lot of life left in them. Many show very little use, I believe.


Question 4: When I get a Garand, what sort of clean-up is necessary to make it servicable?

I believe they use a de-greasing/de-cosmoline machine these days, and they should have been test fired after inspection. Expect some cosmoline though.
Mine had a moderate amount of cosmoline to wipe off and clean with degreasers. I detail-stripped both of mine, using the directions in the booklet included. Cleaned everything, and reassembled.

Question 5: I do not anticipate visiting the CMP store, so would probably order and cross my fingers. How much of a chance am I taking with quality?

The Service Grades are very nice. The description on the Sales page sounds scary, but it's worst case, to cover themselves.

I strongly suggest you read the CMP Forum for descriptions of actual rifles people are receiving. There are always a lot of those threads going there.
There are occasional threads where people gripe, and you have to figure the pristine rifles people rave about must be above average.

It wouldn't just be a matter of getting the Garand, but also associated bits and pieces. That means .30-06 Garand ammo, cleaning tools, clips, and (for the complete setup) the bayonet. Since I am already happy with reloading .38, .357, and .45 I would expand to include .30-06 on my Rockchucker. I am a member of Izaak Walton League, but not a branch listed with CMP as a valid organization permitting purchase, so I'll probably join the Garand Collector's Association.

Question 5: How many clips is a decent supply to have on hand?

I have mountains of clips, because most of my ammo came on clips. Ten would probably be enough, though. 20 would be better. $1 per is cheap, $1.50 is pretty good.



Question 6: From my pistol cartridge reloading I know steel cases are no good for reloads. Is there any cartridge types I should steer clear of for reloading .30-06? (CMP has Greek "boxer-primed", but what does that mean?)

The Greek HXP ammo is good, reloadable stuff. Boxer primed ammo is the standard US kind easily reloadable. European-style Berdan primed ammo is a challenge to reload, assuming you can special-order the primers.

AIM has some nice Prvi Garand ammo right now that's not much more expensive than the mixed-headstamp HXP the CMP has now. The Hornady match ammo is very good, and quite expensive.

There's a lot of surplus recently arrived from Korea. Assume it is corrosive primed. I wouldn't use it in a Garand myself. I've seen old French stuff that's also corrosive: in fact, I have some in my shed. It's my Last Ditch ammo.



Question 7: Unless I have a C&R license, would I have to go through an FFL?

By special congressional act, the CMP can FedEx your rifle straight to your door. No FFL needed.

Question 8: What sort of accuracy can a Garand get?[/QUOTE]

Probably better than I can shoot with my bad eyesight. About 3 MOA. The 10 ring on the SR-1 100 yard target is about 3 inches, and people shoot possibles with Service Grades, iron sights, from position (not bench). I think I've shot 9 of 10 before.

 

[8milimeter]

Service Grade HRA or SA (sn > 5000000) MW=1 $650
A lot of these have all the original parts (except stock) and have never been rebuilt.
This is the best deal for a Garand.

If you are looking for accuracy only the special with Criterion barrel is the way to go.

 

[Trekker]

Service Grade HRA or SA (sn > 5000000) MW=1 $650
A lot of these have all the original parts (except stock) and have never been rebuilt.
This is the best deal for a Garand.

If you are looking for accuracy only the special with Criterion barrel is the way to go.

Assuming I get a Service Grade and eventually have a new criterion barrel and stock added, would it then be the equivelent of a Special Grade?

 

[4MDGunRights]

This is the route that I went; a CMP field grade and then added a new stock and Criterion .308 barrel. Some of the Garand purists wouldn't agree, and you can't shoot the CMP Garand matches, but most folks agree that the .308 Garands are consistantly more accurate and .308 ammo will surely be around a lot longer.
http://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=78922
The Garand Guy replaced my barrel while I waited for it, and it is really not very difficult, but it does require a couple of special tools like a barrel wrench and a throat reamer. He did it in less than 20 minutes.

 

[Redcobra]

To answer the title question: What's to think about? Buy one!

I was lucky, and found a "correct" grade and bought it from a MDS member.

 

[Redcobra]

This is the route that I went; a CMP field grade and then added a new stock and Criterion .308 barrel. Some of the Garand purists wouldn't agree, and you can't shoot the CMP Garand matches, but most folks agree that the .308 Garands are consistantly more accurate and .308 ammo will surely be around a lot longer.
http://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=78922
The Garand Guy replaced my barrel while I waited for it, and it is really not very difficult, but it does require a couple of special tools like a barrel wrench and a throat reamer. He did it in less than 20 minutes.

So, you can't shoot a.308 Garand in CMP matches, but you can shoot an M1A??

 

[dancnr]

I think its not about the round, its about the rifle being in original configuration, someone more knowledgeable can feel free to cite specifics

 

[Doug2255]

Trekker - I just got my CMP special grade delivered yesterday. I have not had a chance to really look her over or even shoot it yet, but you are very welcome to come by check it out if you want to see exactly what you get for the $$.

I plan on trying it over at Delta shortly. Just not sure when "shortly" will be. I am in Bel Air and am home most of the time (day and night).

Just let me know if you want to check it out. By the way, it is the .30-06

 

[8milimeter]

Garand

Assuming I get a Service Grade and eventually have a new criterion barrel and stock added, would it then be the equivelent of a Special Grade?

Yes, but an expensive way to go about it.
Get a service grade with low muzzle reading and see how it shoots.
Every barrel is different you may get lucky.

( 5.6 HRA or a 5.8 SA ) MW <=1 is what I would get.

I have three Garands,
A Kreiger barreled 30-06
A Criterion barreled 30-06
A 5.6 HRA mw=1
My highest score with a Garand I shot in april with the HRA using 69 HXP
289-5x

 

[Machodoc]

As you are starting to notice, you are going to get lots of different opinions because different people want these for different purposes ... and you aren't quite sure yet what you want to do with yours, or which direction you want to head. I'd say that you should go for the service grade, and here's why ...

It's less expensive, and you should still be able to shoot it a bunch--maybe all that you end up wanting to.

Once you've had it for awhile, you may decide that you want one that's as close to WWII issue as possible (for example). With a bit of luck, you might start out with one that has both an original stock and original wood. If not, you can trade out the parts that you want to later, when you have time to shop around.

I'm sure that the specials are beautiful rifles, and that they shoot very well, but if you read the descriptions of them, they could send you a piece that's pretty near to being a reproduction. If you want a pretty like-new rifle, go for it.

But if you want one that's an authentic war-production piece, start with a rifle might come to you all original (with "honest" wear that's part of the history of the rifle), or that only needs an original stock or other minor part to turn it into what you really want. If you choose to go this route, the extra $600 will help you to buy replacement parts, and you can always sell the stuff you end up with as extras.

That's just another opinion ... something to think about.

 

[BlueHeeler]

The short and emphatic answer is, Yes! Get one. Any Garand is better than no Garand.

I have a CMP correct grade, it was on the expensive side. TBH compared to the service grades I have seen on MDS, mine looks a little better. It is seriously accurate, but I do not know if that has to do with the grade or I suspect I was a bit lucky. I am not sure it was worth the price.

CMP is the way to go, match your budget to what they have to offer.
Enjoy it. Mine is a shooter and one of my favorite rifles to shoot.

 

[rico903]

The short and emphatic answer is, Yes! Get one. Any Garand is better than no Garand.

I have a CMP correct grade, it was on the expensive side. TBH compared to the service grades I have seen on MDS, mine looks a little better. It is seriously accurate, but I do not know if that has to do with the grade or I suspect I was a bit lucky. I am not sure it was worth the price.

CMP is the way to go, match your budget to what they have to offer.
Enjoy it. Mine is a shooter and one of my favorite rifles to shoot.

They sold out of the Correct Grades in March. Yours will only go up in value.

 

[Celtic159]

Can someone explain why it's not recommended to shoot modern ammunition through a Garand?

 

[kalister1]

From what I have read, it has to do with the burning rate of the powder. The operating rod can get bent if the wrong powder is used. There was a powder designed just for the M1 Garand (????? IMR 4895 ?????)

 

[dancnr]

The higher pressure modern loads can lead too much pressure on the op rod causing it to bend. There is a commercial adjustable gas plug that lets you fix this problem. M2 ball ammo is what is ideal for a Garand, but its all surplus and old now. Modern loads of 30'06 are made for hunting rifles and are usually loaded to higher pressures with heavier bullets. Manufacturers know that there are many Garands out there so they make loads for the Garand. I think most of the loads for 150 gr bullets will be ok. Personally I have shot modern Privi out of my Garand.

 

[Celtic159]

Interesting. I'm thinking about picking one up, but I'd rather not have to scour places for acceptable ammunition.