The Post Navy Yard Gun Control Debate is on Our Terms

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  • Hopalong

    Man of Many Nicknames
    Jun 28, 2010
    2,921
    Howard County
    The more I think about this, the more I realize that, as much as I loathe the idea, this is one horrible crime that we can genuinely use to our advantage instead of the gun control zealots using it to theirs. Here's why:

    1. The shooter started off with only a shotgun. One of the rules that even the most devout gun control fanatic will always follow is that you don't mess with hunters. Ever. Shotguns are their bread and butter. At best, the shooter used some kind of tactical shotgun, but it's still just a shotgun. There can be no push to ban/restrict rifles or handguns unless you want to start about disarming cops and the military.

    2. The shooter passed a NICS check to get said shotgun. I've been saying for years that we don't need more background checks, we need better ones. This guy had several gun-related arrests on his records, but no convictions. That shouldn't be enough to prohibit him out of hand (innocent until proven guilty and all), but maybe it should have raised a red flag to warrant some further investigation. And that's assuming that the arrests were even in the NICS database in the first place. Even ignoring that, it proves that bad people can still pass a background check so they're not a "cure-all" for gun-related violence.

    3. The shooting happened within not one, but two "Gun Free Zones". This one speaks for itself. All they do is create target boxes. This one had the benefit of a secure perimeter so the shooter had longer to shoot, maim, and kill before being stopped.

    4. It took armed responders seven minutes to respond to one of the most important military facilities in the country. If they take that long to respond to such a high value asset, what are the odds that they'll reply more quickly to a school, movie theater, etc.? Pretty slim. I watched Olympus Has Fallen recently, and while I wasn't overly impressed with the movie, it kind of foreshadowed this event: attacking a "secure" facility with speed and daring and accomplishing you goals before a complacent, unexpecting armed response arrives.


    Bad people are going to do bad things. Nothing can stop that. We can't disarm everyone since that violates our constitutional rights. We can't afford to pay armed security to be everywhere because that violates our wallets. This all points to one conclusion:

    Let The People carry their own guns if they choose to so they can protect themselves.


    Let the Feinsteins and Bloombergs bring on their attempts at gun control. This one is on our terms, this one happened when playing by their rules. Finally, this one we can use to our benefit.
     

    Hopalong

    Man of Many Nicknames
    Jun 28, 2010
    2,921
    Howard County
    Make no mistake about it though, letting more good people carry guns is a reactive solution. We need to look at proactive solutions that get at the socioeconomic and mental health causes of gun-related violence. Letting the people defend themselves will not eradicate gun-related violence. It's only part of the solution.

    Never forget that.
     

    Mr H

    Banana'd
    2. The shooter passed a NICS check to get said shotgun

    This, IMO, is going to be an interesting point.

    Did he pass NICS before or after he started receiving treatment for his emotional issues?

    If before, there's nothing we can do, most likely.

    If after, then there will be a tender toe-dance that will have to happen, to redraw the lines around medical records and approvals.

    Beyond that, I think you're right on the mark.
     

    Hopalong

    Man of Many Nicknames
    Jun 28, 2010
    2,921
    Howard County
    Did he pass NICS before or after he started receiving treatment for his emotional issues?

    Trying to get people to understand the poor quality and uniformity of the NICS system has always been one of my biggest pet crusades. This gets me into trouble with some pro-gun people, but I really think the system would be much more effective if reporting requirements were at least uniform across all states. As for what goes in and what doesn't? That gets complicated. I don't think anyone wants to open that can of worms, but at some point we're going to have to.
     

    Raineman

    On the 3rd box
    Dec 27, 2008
    3,547
    Eldersburg
    Let the Feinsteins and Bloombergs bring on their attempts at gun control. This one is on our terms, this one happened when playing by their rules. Finally, this one we can use to our benefit.



    This.

    Been thinking about this since it happened.

    "First responders" should always be an armed citizen.

    Yesterday's crime proves it to even the blindest eyes.
     

    Doctor_M

    Certified Mad Scientist
    MDS Supporter
    The fact that he passed a NICS check at some point will just be used as fuel that there needs to be an annual licensing scheme and nobody should be allowed a life-time appointment to gun ownership. These people are as predictable as the day is long. Logic will not get in their way.
     

    RightNYer

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    May 5, 2013
    489
    The more I think about this, the more I realize that, as much as I loathe the idea, this is one horrible crime that we can genuinely use to our advantage instead of the gun control zealots using it to theirs. Here's why:

    1. The shooter started off with only a shotgun. One of the rules that even the most devout gun control fanatic will always follow is that you don't mess with hunters. Ever. Shotguns are their bread and butter. At best, the shooter used some kind of tactical shotgun, but it's still just a shotgun. There can be no push to ban/restrict rifles or handguns unless you want to start about disarming cops and the military.

    2. The shooter passed a NICS check to get said shotgun. I've been saying for years that we don't need more background checks, we need better ones. This guy had several gun-related arrests on his records, but no convictions. That shouldn't be enough to prohibit him out of hand (innocent until proven guilty and all), but maybe it should have raised a red flag to warrant some further investigation. And that's assuming that the arrests were even in the NICS database in the first place. Even ignoring that, it proves that bad people can still pass a background check so they're not a "cure-all" for gun-related violence.

    3. The shooting happened within not one, but two "Gun Free Zones". This one speaks for itself. All they do is create target boxes. This one had the benefit of a secure perimeter so the shooter had longer to shoot, maim, and kill before being stopped.

    4. It took armed responders seven minutes to respond to one of the most important military facilities in the country. If they take that long to respond to such a high value asset, what are the odds that they'll reply more quickly to a school, movie theater, etc.? Pretty slim. I watched Olympus Has Fallen recently, and while I wasn't overly impressed with the movie, it kind of foreshadowed this event: attacking a "secure" facility with speed and daring and accomplishing you goals before a complacent, unexpecting armed response arrives.


    Bad people are going to do bad things. Nothing can stop that. We can't disarm everyone since that violates our constitutional rights. We can't afford to pay armed security to be everywhere because that violates our wallets. This all points to one conclusion:

    Let The People carry their own guns if they choose to so they can protect themselves.


    Let the Feinsteins and Bloombergs bring on their attempts at gun control. This one is on our terms, this one happened when playing by their rules. Finally, this one we can use to our benefit.

    I agree. I have never agreed as a matter of principle that only felony convictions should disqualify a person, if his behavior demonstrates a pattern of conduct that shows he is not fit to own a firearm. My opposition therefore is practical. I don't trust liberals to not abuse their discretion.

    I'm okay with denying people who have a history of violence, unstable behavior, getting in bar fights, etc. from buying a firearm as long as the denying party is independent (say a judge, not a cop), is able to articulate a factual basis for his denial, and not just "he doesn't 'need' it" AND finally, if there is an appellate process. I think that would comport with due process, but unbridled discretion of course, does not.
     

    Long1MD

    Ultimate Member
    Feb 12, 2013
    1,113
    Too far gone
    The fact that he passed a NICS check at some point will just be used as fuel that there needs to be an annual licensing scheme and nobody should be allowed a life-time appointment to gun ownership. These people are as predictable as the day is long. Logic will not get in

    Although we hope for better, this will be spun the gun grabbers way. Any over the counter stuff will now come into play and talk of restricting will come (MD,CA,NY,IL are a given). Who here will bet me that, if a Dem becomes president again, by the end of their term there will be new rules in place for guns that are currently over the counter? We may not even be speaking nation wide, but definitely in several states that dems control. IMO we will begin talks .....Now
     

    Mr H

    Banana'd
    Not laying a bet down... because I'd hate to take your money!!

    This is something we can have some control over. The tide is turning, and people really are waking the f up.

    But, what is needed is staying power. Our voices are slowly whittling away the tripe-and-hype that is the constant MSM whining, keening, and hand-wringing over "Guns are bad, m-kay?"

    Grassroots groups across the country are making inroads. Illinois has turned, in no small part because of ground-up pressure. In MD, we're making progress as well, and we were one vote from breaking the line (so, they had to cheat).

    Slow and steady, building momentum is happening... We're all part of it.

    See you all 9/23!!!!!
     

    zoostation

    , ,
    Moderator
    Jan 28, 2007
    22,857
    Abingdon
    I think the one thing you will see come out of this is an attempt by the antis to open counseling records well beyond what the government has access to now. They know if they can get a blanket release requirement it will affect probably around 40% of the population, and will deter many of those people who have seen a doctor for non-threatening issues in the past from ever trying to buy a firearm. Even if they're not written out for whatever they were treated for, the mere stigma of exposure will be a huge deterrent. That will be a huge blow to the numbers of the gun owning community, and will also grow the ranks of the antis.

    All the press has done all day is talk about this *******'s self-proclaimed "PTSD" and his "anger issues." I can guess where this is going.
     

    kohburn

    Resident MacGyver
    MDS Supporter
    Aug 15, 2008
    6,796
    PAX NAS / CP MCAS
    if this gets blaimed in the NICS, then the states that don't report the data to NICS *cough* maryland *cough*, need to get their peepees slapped.
     

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