The fallacy of M1 Garand weight

[Ponder_MD]

I learned something interesting this week.

My mid-length "Lego" only weighs .5lbs less than my M1. The AR is practically naked. Iron sights, no lasers, flashlights, optics or other add-ons. Both rifles have slings but no bayonets. The HBAR does account for some of that weight. A 20 inch HBAR AR would probably close the gap to make the weight even.

I've always heard people say "The M1 is heavy" as a point of obsolescence. The real difference is in the weight of equivalent ammo carried, not the rifle itself.
The typical loadout of a modern infantryman is 210-300 rounds of 5.56. 300 rounds weigh 8.07lbs (less magazine weight)
300 rounds of .30-06 is a whopping 17.85lbs not including the weight of enbloc clips. In WWII, a US infantryman typically carried only 88 rounds in an M1923 cartridge belt and perhaps an enbloc snagged on his sling.

Interestingly, .308 is the same weight despite being a smaller cartridge. (An M14 weighs 9.2lbs empty, as a point of comparison.)

Anyway, the point of my post is merely that the M1 rifle's weight by itself as a point of obsolescence is basically nonsense. I understand that the M1 is obsolete due to a variety of other valid reasons.

 

[K31]

I had a neighbor who was a WWII vet and took part in D-Day if he was a buck and a quarter soaking wet then I'd be surprised. He carried a Garand. Still had one when he passed.

Not only is the weigh exaggerated, so is the recoil.

 

[alucard0822]

A Garand weighs about 9.5lbs, but most of that weight is forward in the barrel, ARs are balanced more rearward, and can feel lighter than they actually are. An M16 weighs about 7#, but the balance makes it feel a lot lighter when shooting from a standing position. Even so ARs can be built pretty light, my 16" 3gun build on a V7 was just under 5# without optics. Like shooting a really really loud BB gun.

 

[Ponder_MD]

A Garand weighs about 9.5lbs, but most of that weight is forward in the barrel, ARs are balanced more rearward, and can feel lighter than they actually are. An M16 weighs about 7#, but the balance makes it feel a lot lighter when shooting from a standing position. Even so ARs can be built pretty light, my 16" 3gun build on a V7 was just under 5# without optics. Like shooting a really really loud BB gun.

How the heck did you get it so light? And why is an M16 so much lighter than an AR built by a private citizen?

 

[TheOriginalMexicanBob]

A lot depends on what model AR-15/M16...original pencil barrel or heavy barrel? Some bolt carriers weight a bit more than others. Some stocks are a bit heftier than others. Private citizens like to add on doo-dads that may or may not be helpful where soldiers try to keep things as light as possible. With M1 Garand's some wood stocks are denser and thus heavier than others.

Standard weights aren't an absolute...pretty much an accepted average.

 

[Bountied]

The Garand was phased out for several reasons, not really because of it's weight. The first being the conversion to NATO spec ammo. Hence the M14, basically an M1 with select fire and detachable mags. Then the high velocity small caliber project yielded good results and they thought if we can shoot more bullets the hit probability goes up, and yes you can carry twice as many rounds of 556 as 762. That's when the M16 came in. There are more reasons but I think that covers the big ones.

 

[Bountied]

A lot depends on what model AR-15/M16...original pencil barrel or heavy barrel? Some bolt carriers weight a bit more than others. Some stocks are a bit heftier than others. Private citizens like to add on doo-dads that may or may not be helpful where soldiers try to keep things as light as possible. With M1 Garand's some wood stocks are denser and thus heavier than others.

Standard weights aren't an absolute...pretty much an accepted average.

Pre-13s will usually be lighter. If you're running a heavy barrel on a pre-13 you need to reevaluate your life choices.

 

[alucard0822]

How the heck did you get it so light? And why is an M16 so much lighter than an AR built by a private citizen?

PA resident, so no HBAR requirement. 16" Faxon gunner barrel, O2 handguard, V7 2055 receivers, Odinworks O2 rail and low mass BCG/buffer. The Px4i scope and Aero mount brought it up to a little over 6#, full mass internals would add about 1/2 a LB if I wanted it to be a defensive build instead of a 3 gun competition build. There is always a tradeoff, and this is a 3 gun rifle, for a defensive rifle I could keep light weight with a shorter barrel, use a stronger handguard and full mass BCG/buffer, would probably add .5-1lb to it in that role. Even my AR308 builds usually are lighter than my M1 and M1A, one Aero M5 I built was 7.5lbs, in full power 308, and full mass internals. Technology.

. THere is

 

[Ponder_MD]

Bravo, dude. Amazing!

 

[Doco Overboard]

Those damned M1's are getting heavier and heavier every year.
Its a real balancing act with a bayo attached to them.

 

[Park ranger]

Those damned M1's are getting heavier and heavier every year.
Its a real balancing act with a bayo attached to them.

That is baller!

 

[Doco Overboard]

That is baller!

I'm glad you got a kick out of that.
Talking about them is one thing, learning how to apply them is another.
I know you already know about both from a rifleman's perspective.
Peace.

 

[Park ranger]

I'm glad you got a kick out of that.
Talking about them is one thing, learning how to apply them is another.
I know you already know about both from a rifleman's perspective.
Peace.

Peace.

 

[Ponder_MD]

Those damned M1's are getting heavier and heavier every year.
Its a real balancing act with a bayo attached to them.

Love it!

 

[Allen65]

Those damned M1's are getting heavier and heavier every year.
Its a real balancing act with a bayo attached to them.

Must be the weight of all the stock oil accumulating in the wood.

 

[ken792]

How the heck did you get it so light? And why is an M16 so much lighter than an AR built by a private citizen?

Current M4A1s are heavier than bare M16s. Everyone I know currently issued an M4 has the RAS and an optic at minimum. If they get a PEQ-15 and/or a white light, then that’s even more. I’m pretty sure all of them have had the “SOCOM” heavy profile barrel too.

The new M5 rifle is 8.38lb without suppressor and 9.84lb with, not counting optics and accessories.

Once you consider the magazine weight, the loaded M1 en blocs are actually a lot lighter per round than loaded steel 7.62 NATO mags. I did the math a while back and I think it was about the same as AK and StG44 mags per round carried.

US troops could also carry the bandoleers for even more ammo on top of what was in the M1923 belt. Plenty of pictures have WWII troops carrying two bandoleers.

 

[Ponder_MD]

Can you imagine going into battle with only 88 rounds? I'd be begging for a bandolier to go with it.

 

[ken792]

Can you imagine going into battle with only 88 rounds? I'd be begging for a bandolier to go with it.

The USMC AARs from Guadalcanal said that many Marines carried only about 20rd for their rifles. During most firefights in the jungle, they never even saw the enemy and fighting was mostly done using grenades, flamethrowers, and machine guns. They would carry way more grenades than the standard loadout though.