the end of 2A?

[peoples1234]

I guess we disagree about what being a liberal means. Being a liberal doesn't mean you want or depend on the government to protect you. I'm a liberal and I don't want or depend on the government to protect me.

But really, I guess I'm more of a left-leaning centrist than anything. Around here though I might as well be Noam Chomsky. I usually refer to myself as a liberal because in our current environment it's just easier to use the generic terms "liberal" and "conservative". I'm pro-choice, pro-gay marriage, anti-death penalty. I think all the money we spend on our bloated military would be better spent on education, infrastructure and *gasp* healthcare. In these parts that qualifies me for the scarlet "L".

I am also fiercely pro 2A. I'm fiercely pro all A's. Preserving and defending ALL of our civil rights is incredibly important to me. I'm a card carrying member of the ACLU and the NRA.


I will say this though, while I usually tend to cast my votes for more left leaning candidates, once they prove themselves to be actively anti-2A they've lost my vote forever.

 

[dragonfire1911]

I guess we disagree about what being a liberal means. Being a liberal doesn't mean you want or depend on the government to protect you. I'm a liberal and I don't want or depend on the government to protect me.

But really, I guess I'm more of a left-leaning centrist than anything. Around here though I might as well be Noam Chomsky. I usually refer to myself as a liberal because in our current environment it's just easier to use the generic terms "liberal" and "conservative". I'm pro-choice, pro-gay marriage, anti-death penalty. I think all the money we spend on our bloated military would be better spent on education, infrastructure and *gasp* healthcare. In these parts that qualifies me for the scarlet "L".

I am also fiercely pro 2A. I'm fiercely pro all A's. Preserving and defending ALL of our civil rights is incredibly important to me. I'm a card carrying member of the ACLU and the NRA.

I will say this though, while I usually tend to cast my votes for more left leaning candidates, once they prove themselves to be actively anti-2A they've lost my vote forever.

So how would you define those Liberals in this administration who is stepping on the constitution? Your civil rights not just 2A rights are eroding. I don't think you really know what a Liberal is. To me it's a disease that caters to political correctness. Anytime you disagree with a liberal, you're labeled as a racist, gun nut, redneck, selfish, money hungry, angry old white guy. If you're black, you are an uncle Tom. Liberals are not really for civil rights unless it meets their definition of civil rights.

The things you listed, school, healthcare, infrastructure...we as a nation spent more on education and healthcare per capita than any other nation. Yet liberals still want to throw money at it as if money cure all. Perfect example of Liberals want the government to solve their problems. When all one had to do is to look at the root of situation and get off the PC crap. If we have better family structure, less kids having kids, better discipline, more emphasis on education (as a culture) then we can solve lots of our ills. Instead liberals blame it on race, corporations, crime, economy. Fix some of our social/moral issues, we can eliminate lots of the crimes that costing us shit loads of money in healthcare, education, and unemployment.

 

[dragonfire1911]

BTW...I'm not white or black. I'm a first generation legal immigrant.

 

[556ready]

That passerby was not portrayed as a vigilante, or some armed yahoo looking for trouble.....they were portrayed as someone who stepped up to assist.

 

[larr]

This is bull and you know it. If you were fiercely pro 2A you wouldn't be a liberal. Period. You can't say you support gun rights when you vote for a party that directly opposes them. It's in the party platform. And you support it.

I think you need to need to take a long hard look at what the people you support are doing to gun rights before you can claim that you support gun rights. You can protest all you want as the people you voted for pass a bill further restricting gun rights. That protesting doesn't make you pro-2A. The people you put in office makes you an enemy and you wonder why you feel unwelcome in the gun community.

^^^this^^^
Pro 2A Liberal = Oxymoron
You cannot be pro 2A and vote Anti 2A Liberals in office

 

[patriot001]

Who said we will?

 

[Mark75H]

Not only is ownership up, but the resolve and determination to keep the right has increased dramatically.

This ... now we need to see it at the ballot box.


If there is another session like this year in 2014 ... it will be super easy for voters to remember who is pro and who is anti ... because of this, I predict a quiet session ... Mike knows how to run a good show, keep his ducks in a row and his lapdogs happy

 

[Mr H]

This ... now we need to see it at the ballot box.


If there is another session like this year in 2014 ... it will be super easy for voters to remember who is pro and who is anti ... because of this, I predict a quiet session ... Mike knows how to run a good show, keep his ducks in a row and his lapdogs happy

That's all well and good for Nov 2014... and I'm fully aware we're not 'safe' here... this is the perfect opportunity to launch a full frontal assault on the anti-2A position during the 2014 GA session, and let them have it with every tool at our disposal.

Of those who will actually speak their mind, the 'friendlies' across the state far outnumber the 'antis'. Look at March 1. 4500 individuals who brought themselves in from all reaches, v. 200 or so who were bussed in (some from out of state, IIRC).

The population is on our side. The center of power isn't. It is time to get people to build on what they started last year, and turn this thing on its head.

:::avoiding Howard Dean Scream:::

 

[Brooklyn]

That's all well and good for Nov 2014... and I'm fully aware we're not 'safe' here... this is the perfect opportunity to launch a full frontal assault on the anti-2A position during the 2014 GA session, and let them have it with every tool at our disposal.

Of those who will actually speak their mind, the 'friendlies' across the state far outnumber the 'antis'. Look at March 1. 4500 individuals who brought themselves in from all reaches, v. 200 or so who were bussed in (some from out of state, IIRC).

The population is on our side. The center of power isn't. It is time to get people to build on what they started last year, and turn this thing on its head.

:::avoiding Howard Dean Scream:::

I think this has some merit.

We need to break records again ... 10 k maybe...

If I were op force I would try an put us on the defensive again, but if mark74H is right ( very possible) your play is golden

And if we can play offense and defense -- no dare I dream ...

We need folks to believe we can hurt them -- and I think the intramural bloodletting in the democratic party is all due to the delay we helped engineer ...

Ans I am proud of what we did ...

 

[Mr H]

I think this has some merit.

We need to break records again ... 10 k maybe...

If I were op force I would try an put us on the defensive again, but if mark74H is right ( very possible) your play is golden

And if we can play offense and defense -- no dare I dream ...

We need folks to believe we can hurt them -- and I think the intramural bloodletting in the democratic party is all due to the delay we helped engineer ...

Ans I am proud of what we did ...

We SHOULD be proud. Everyone who showed up, made a call, sent an email, burned up a fax... Last year was a watershed event, and we made people notice. People who thought they were inviolable.

I've said for a while now we can turn this to 10,000... then 20,000... and a million contacts into five and ten MM... But it HAS to start now. October is too close to just sit wringing our hands.

It's why I'm doing the work I am. We got this ball rolling, and it needs to roll right effing over the Leftist Triangle establishment.

(and walk away, peacefully...)

 

[Mark75H]

Very hard to motivate that many people who don't think its the last ditch & hedgerow

 

[Mr H]

Very hard to motivate that many people who don't think its the last ditch & hedgerow

There's no reason not to go down swinging......

We already turned 100 from 2012 into 4500 in 2013.

 

[IMBLITZVT]

Yea, we seem to have a lot in common. I grew up in several group homes.... vote for Ron Paul in the last election, as a lot of (not all) dems, and reps I know. ....It's starts in the home IMO, ....

Well I hate to tell you but you are not sounding like a liberal. Maybe a libertarian but far from a modern liberal. I to wished to vote for Ron Paul and Buchanan before him. I don't just tow a party line. I do think he would have pulled well from Dems too! Well if you believe the problem starts at home, then you must look what liberalism has done to the home. First liberalism has started programs supporting those who make bad choices. Like having kids outside of marriage. You do that and they start throwing free money at you and you are hooked and now you can't afford or need to get married. Hell if my wife and I were to divorce, the state would open the tap and the funds would flow! So anything you subsidize you will get more of! The Liberals with their good intentions just wanted to help. However what they really did was make it ok and possible to live like that. Minority families have been gutted by this! Look up the numbers of Blacks born with unmarried mothers. So if you value home life, meaning a strong family the safety net has all but destroyed it. Liberals stress acceptance where Conservatives stress doing things right. Liberals have won that war and now its ok to have 5 kids with 5 baby-daddies and still not be married to any. Liberals attack traditional women's roles. Conservatives understand the value, sacrifice and worth of a woman staying home to raise a child. To a liberal, this is next to slavery and to be looked down on. Anywhere you go, Conservatives want people to follow the traditional ways of raising a family with strong parents and values. They don't make it easy for those that stray from this so you don't get more of it! However they don't let those people be forced onto the street either. Liberals "accept" things however you want to do them and this ends in poor homes for kids. Need proof, look at homes in liberal areas and homes in conservative areas...

I guess we disagree about what being a liberal means. Being a liberal doesn't mean you want or depend on the government to protect you. I'm a liberal and I don't want or depend on the government to protect me.

Well what does being a liberal mean?

But really, I guess I'm more of a left-leaning centrist ...I'm pro-choice, pro-gay marriage, anti-death penalty. I think all the money we spend on our bloated military would be better spent on education, infrastructure and *gasp* healthcare. In these parts that qualifies me for the scarlet "L".

Well I do agree, you are a liberal! Pro-Choice and Anti-Death penalty... that ones always gets me. Ok to kill the unborn but don't dare executed a convicted murderer. However I know you would just tell me that the unborn aren't really alive or something like that. I don't get it but I have heard it before. You also have faith in that Convicted Murderer not to try and kill his guards for the rest of his life since there is nothing more you can do to him. I don't see how they mesh but then again you are pro-2A and a liberal, so having thing mesh might not be something you worry about. I totally agree we need to put an end to the bloated military. Hands down agree. However that idea of spending that money on education! Crazy! Per Student Baltimore city spends the most and also has the worst education in the state! Money does not equal good education, it means more government jobs in education with more red tape. Its a jobs program, nothing more. If you want to improve education its simple, bring back discipline. We have enough money in the budget for rulers! Healthcare, I don't want the Government helping me with healthcare! Everytime they do, I get less and pay more! We have already seen huge increases in our costs thanks to ObamaCare and trust me, with my daughter being in the hospital for 2 months in 2013 so far, going into surgery probably a dozen times, I know! How about this idea... stop stealing so much in taxes and I can afford my own healthcare! I can figure out on my own how money is best spent.

I am also fiercely pro 2A. I'm fiercely pro all A's. Preserving and defending ALL of our civil rights is incredibly important to me. I'm a card carrying member of the ACLU and the NRA.

I just don't see it. You are pro As... explain where Abortion is in the As? Its not! Explain how the Government can do half of what it does.

10A: The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

You follow this A and almost every Liberal social program is out the window!

I will say this though, while I usually tend to cast my votes for more left leaning candidates, once they prove themselves to be actively anti-2A they've lost my vote forever.

"Actively anti-2a" So the man tells you that he wants to take your 2A rights but until he actually does it, you will support him. Sounds like a guaranteed way to make sure you get screwed! God help you with your money. Does you invest with people saying that will steal your money until they actively steal it? Then once they stole your money, then you refuse to invest with them again! Yeah that is some liberal thinking, I will give you that! Thats like a Robber holding a gun to your head and you choosing to believe its unloaded until he pulls the trigger and a bullet comes out!

 

[tapeman1]

Well I hate to tell you but you are not sounding like a liberal. Maybe a libertarian but far from a modern liberal. I to wished to vote for Ron Paul and Buchanan before him. I don't just tow a party line. I do think he would have pulled well from Dems too! Well if you believe the problem starts at home, then you must look what liberalism has done to the home. First liberalism has started programs supporting those who make bad choices. Like having kids outside of marriage. You do that and they start throwing free money at you and you are hooked and now you can't afford or need to get married. Hell if my wife and I were to divorce, the state would open the tap and the funds would flow! So anything you subsidize you will get more of! The Liberals with their good intentions just wanted to help. However what they really did was make it ok and possible to live like that. Minority families have been gutted by this! Look up the numbers of Blacks born with unmarried mothers. So if you value home life, meaning a strong family the safety net has all but destroyed it. Liberals stress acceptance where Conservatives stress doing things right. Liberals have won that war and now its ok to have 5 kids with 5 baby-daddies and still not be married to any. Liberals attack traditional women's roles. Conservatives understand the value, sacrifice and worth of a woman staying home to raise a child. To a liberal, this is next to slavery and to be looked down on. Anywhere you go, Conservatives want people to follow the traditional ways of raising a family with strong parents and values. They don't make it easy for those that stray from this so you don't get more of it! However they don't let those people be forced onto the street either. Liberals "accept" things however you want to do them and this ends in poor homes for kids. Need proof, look at homes in liberal areas and homes in conservative areas...



Well what does being a liberal mean?



Well I do agree, you are a liberal! Pro-Choice and Anti-Death penalty... that ones always gets me. Ok to kill the unborn but don't dare executed a convicted murderer. However I know you would just tell me that the unborn aren't really alive or something like that. I don't get it but I have heard it before. You also have faith in that Convicted Murderer not to try and kill his guards for the rest of his life since there is nothing more you can do to him. I don't see how they mesh but then again you are pro-2A and a liberal, so having thing mesh might not be something you worry about. I totally agree we need to put an end to the bloated military. Hands down agree. However that idea of spending that money on education! Crazy! Per Student Baltimore city spends the most and also has the worst education in the state! Money does not equal good education, it means more government jobs in education with more red tape. Its a jobs program, nothing more. If you want to improve education its simple, bring back discipline. We have enough money in the budget for rulers! Healthcare, I don't want the Government helping me with healthcare! Everytime they do, I get less and pay more! We have already seen huge increases in our costs thanks to ObamaCare and trust me, with my daughter being in the hospital for 2 months in 2013 so far, going into surgery probably a dozen times, I know! How about this idea... stop stealing so much in taxes and I can afford my own healthcare! I can figure out on my own how money is best spent.



I just don't see it. You are pro As... explain where Abortion is in the As? Its not! Explain how the Government can do half of what it does.



You follow this A and almost every Liberal social program is out the window!



"Actively anti-2a" So the man tells you that he wants to take your 2A rights but until he actually does it, you will support him. Sounds like a guaranteed way to make sure you get screwed! God help you with your money. Does you invest with people saying that will steal your money until they actively steal it? Then once they stole your money, then you refuse to invest with them again! Yeah that is some liberal thinking, I will give you that! Thats like a Robber holding a gun to your head and you choosing to believe its unloaded until he pulls the trigger and a bullet comes out!

So, this is now an argument on the merits of liberal vs. conservative opinions. I'm shocked! SHOCKED!!


I thought we were talking about whether someone could be liberal and pro-2A.

I, by your own admission, am liberal. I, like the others who have posted in this thread, am both liberal and pro-2A. Thus disproving your theory. The fact that you guys can't wrap your heads around that is just something that we'll all have to live with.

 

[Brooklyn]

Very hard to motivate that many people who don't think its the last ditch & hedgerow

Which is why I am trying to be a pia about negative talk

Sometimes I wonder why I don't give up... we can't talk ourselves into failure...

But eventually even I will see the writing on the wall.

But not yet. 10k next year..
We have no choice..

 

[patriot001]

This state is in very deep $***, and there's no solutions on the table. Not just their utter disregard for people's rights, but as you pointed out recklessly giving money to people who don't wanna earn it. I can see md becoming Detroit soon. I hope I get the job in Va the real free state, so I can gtfo this sinking ship.

 

[IMBLITZVT]

So, this is now an argument on the merits of liberal vs. conservative opinions. I'm shocked! SHOCKED!!

I thought we were talking about whether someone could be liberal and pro-2A.

I, by your own admission, am liberal. I, like the others who have posted in this thread, am both liberal and pro-2A. Thus disproving your theory. The fact that you guys can't wrap your heads around that is just something that we'll all have to live with.

No, not an argument of the merits of Liberal vs Conservative in the reply to you. I originally posted that I don't think pro-2A and Liberal are compatible. Of course you can be liberal and Pro-2A. You can be anything you want but that does not mean they are compatible. I mean one can claim to be a pacifist and go fight in a war but that does not mean that makes any sense! It does not disprove my theory, it just means that some don't use logic and principles to base their stances on issues. The pillars of modern liberal philosophy and Pro-2A don't seem to mesh. As proof of this look towards most politicians that most closely practicing modern liberalism. They are all Anti-2A.

I can wrap my head around it as I understand more behind why liberals think or should I more accurately say feel the way they do. Conservatives tend to have a set of principles and their feelings do not govern. They don't always live up to this but in general. Liberals tend to be governed by the way they feel or want to feel about an issue. There is not a strict set of principles that govern. So if you are a liberal, you can be Pro-2A because you want to be. However as a conservative, I can't just go get an abortion because I want to or because it would be better for my situation. I have a set of principles that govern that that is wrong and so my feelings and wants do not govern.

I never really try to convince liberals that their way is not correct. The things that Govern them are not the same as mine and so this is never really going to be possible. Its like trying to force religion on someone, just doesn't work. However I have met many in MD that claim to be liberals however what they really are are Anti-republicans as they have grown up that way. The long gone Dixicrats or Union members. Many of them are not liberal but actually very much conservative or libertarian and just don't know it. Or they are holding onto that Democrat name as thats their family's "team". Those are the people I find most interesting to talk to on the subject.

However back to the main point. You still have not explained how Pro-2A is compatible with modern liberal philosophy. Just being both does not mean it makes sense. Explain it!

 

[IMBLITZVT]

This state is in very deep $***, and there's no solutions on the table. Not just their utter disregard for people's rights, but as you pointed out recklessly giving money to people who don't wanna earn it. I can see md becoming Detroit soon. I hope I get the job in Va the real free state, so I can gtfo this sinking ship.

There are no solutions on the table because there are only liberals at the table. Conservatives have solutions. They are hard and painful at this point but work. Think about that... you want to move from a liberal utopia of Maryland to the rather Conservative VA but you think you are a liberal?

 

[trance3]

Is it me, or does it seem like more, and more Americans are against guns? Following the school shooting in Ga, and the Aussie baseball player, and even before that it seems like the media is pushing towards a nationwide gun ban like Australia. I also noticed that any pro 2A person is painted as a right winged hate filled facist loon. I'm pro 2a and liberal, but it seems like the media likes to interview those James Yeager types to put this face on all fun owners. What's more is ppl have been getting shot for years, don't get me wrong 1 non justifiable homicide is one too many, but it appears to be getting more media coverage now. Could this ultimately lead to a withdrawal of the 2A from our bill of rights? I've heard several politicians state that it doesn't guaranteeis the right to bear arms?

Don't believe what CNN and MSNBC is trying to feed you. Sadly, that is where most of the people get their daily dose of news. My colleague, who had nothing against gun laws or in support, was asking me the other day that why do we need citizens buying AR15s, gun that can spray bullets and kill hundreds of people in 5 minutes. I had to use the white board and explain him the difference between M16 and AR, Semi Auto and Full Auto. I asked him where did he get the impression that AR is full auto and that any one can go the gunshow and buy one without doing paperwork. He said, he watched a segment on MSNBC, the night before.

 

[Dogabutila]

.....I, by your own admission, am liberal. I, like the others who have posted in this thread, am both liberal and pro-2A. Thus disproving your theory. The fact that you guys can't wrap your heads around that is just something that we'll all have to live with.

You mean you THINK you are pro-2A. How have you made a difference? Don't tell me you went and held a sign. That didn't make a difference. Cause you know, the people YOU voted for passed the law.