The best long blade / sword discussed

[llkoolkeg]

Part of their demonstration includes bending the blade to a nearly 90 degree angle around a pole, they can't be broken and spring right back after being bent.

FYI, unless you are referring to L6 steel with an expensive normalization process and space-age heat-treat, spring-tempered swords are softer, retain an edge less effectively and cut more poorly than harder high-carbon steels. Durability comes at the sacrifice of a sword's primary purpose- to cut through things effectively.

 

[Biggfoot44]

There is no single answer. Over the miliena that swords were state of the art military and defensive weapons various groups and subgroups developed innumerable styles of swords and techniques , and they all worked for them.

The legand of the Kantana primarily comes from Japanese Officers ( a least some of which actually skilled ) facing American solders and Marines in combat within living memory.

Several comments about historical swords being to heavy to be effectivly "fast" . Well back in previous centuries , it took a whole lot of training and strengthening to become a skilled marital swordsman. Like years of training. The specific muscles used in sword combat are not develope by everyday life , or typical fitness . And when solders and particularily officers had a degree of choice in their weapons , people of different size and musculature had different preferences. As another broad generalization , one is best off with a sword THEY can handle with speed and fluidity , rather than what is theoretically ideal for someone else.

Now if the question is "What large edged weapon is best for a non-dedicated swordsman ? " , that's a seperate discussion.

In modern day times , what's deadliest is whatever edged weapon/ edged tool that a person/ group of people is most familar with in everyday life. For millions of agricultural workers , that would be a machete. In the pre chainsaw era of forestry , would have been various axes and related tools. ( In the WWII era , US Mil issued some Woodsman's Pals for jungle clearing , and reportedly used against more than a few Japanese).

Sabres remained a serious weapon for horse cavalry the longest , but they were obselete upon the introduction of revolvers , it just took decades of inertia for them to fade away.

As far as large knives , the Bowie is hard to argue for combat effectiveness , and is also useful for utility work. But even there historically , they shrank in size by the later 1800's when revolvers were common , compared to their origional size.

 

[WeaponsCollector]

FYI, unless you are referring to L6 steel with an expensive normalization process and space-age heat-treat, spring-tempered swords are softer, retain an edge less effectively and cut more poorly than harder high-carbon steels. Durability comes at the sacrifice of a sword's primary purpose- to cut through things effectively.

You can chop through steel with a Badger sword and they will keep their edge. If you've ever seen their booth at the Ren Fest they have what's left of a large steel anvil that they chop on all day long with their swords and the swords are still fairly sharp.

 

[llkoolkeg]

You can chop through steel with a Badger sword and they will keep their edge. If you've ever seen their booth at the Ren Fest they have what's left of a large steel anvil that they chop on all day long with their swords and the swords are still fairly sharp.

From looking at them and their performance as posted, I'd guess those Badger Blades are somewhere in the low to mid 50's Rockwell. Harder steels can cut softer steels and steel rims are not hard. I have bent and flat-spotted them before just having the tires deflated for too long. Anvils are made to be beat against with hammers, not blades, and are softer, naturally, for their intended purpose. A better medium for demonstrating cutting ability is thick green bamboo or rolled tatami mats...unless you're Rocky and have access to a big hanging meat locker. Dead meat is easier to cut than live meat, though.

Ask one of those Badger guys to cut through an FN machine gun barrel or a harder steel and see what happens.

 

[bbrown]

Ask one of those Badger guys to cut through an FN machine gun barrel or a harder steel and see what happens.

Mythbusters did a segment on this, using a non-historic Katana to cut through a 1919a4 barrel IIRC. Didn't work, even when they softened the barrel.

 

[DC-W]

I love Katanas, but there's nothing too special about them versus other similarly stout blades

 

[mdram]

3 pages and no one posted this?

 

[BigDaddy]

An Ikilwa. Was that everyone's second choice?
http://www.atlantacutlery.com/p-1278-zulu-iklwa-spear.aspx

Shaka Zulu's armies killed 2 million with this and a Zulu axe.

 

[jimbobborg]

Mosin

Enfields

 

[llkoolkeg]

Mythbusters did a segment on this, using a non-historic Katana to cut through a 1919a4 barrel IIRC. Didn't work, even when they softened the barrel.

Exactly. You can cut into softer steel but cutting through a machine gun barrel is just not gonna happen. I wouldn't subject any of my blades to such stupidity anyhow. I don't even like to cut things any harder than bamboo or tatami because they will scratch up the beautiful mirror polish of the blades.

Those Enfield bayonets practically ARE swords.

Here is a pic of the one fingerstone polished L6 bainite blade(~$1750) I used to own before selling it to fund a Rick Barrett okissaki custom.

Below it is an actual Japanese family nihonto of my buddy's that I tried to buy but couldn't put $3000 together for...a BARGAIN for the blade.

And below that are three ~$1350 Bugei blades I used to own. Bugei makes the BEST Japanese-style swords for reasonable money, IMHO.

 

[Sharadeth]

Honestly I despise the katana design. I see no benefit in the design over an equal quality Long sword. It is a better design for ease of cutting but a properly executed cut (a.k.a a draw cut) with a long sword is just as effective. But the long sword has additional benefits of a longer reach, better balance, a tip designed for thrusting, and my favorite which is the ability to half hand the sword. Half handing is incredibly useful in an area where precision is necessary (such as in a house). Oh and lets not forget the ability to strike with the pommel or hold the sword entirely by the blade and use the quillons as a makeshift billhook. Granted these last two are not going to commonly be used but the versatility is there if needed. This might just be me though because my background involves training with various swords and I know how to use them comfortably (when you fence you start to look into the true martial arts side as well). Maybe the katana will work better if you are wildly swinging it around but that is not my style

But I do not intend to start any "Kanata vs long sword, rapier, ect...." debates. My choice is in fact not any of those. It is a nice colichemarde or other stiff bladed small sword. A nice strong forte (rear part of the blade) and a very sturdy and precise foible (top part) for easy thrusting. I can parry anything I need and stick the pointy end where I need with speed.

 

[Minuteman]

Sabre or basket-hilt... not as fast as a rapier, but better able to defend against a more meaty weapon....AK-47.

This is the point of the first video; makes sense to me, glad for the discussion.

Colichemarde, has the thrusting precision of the rapier, and the strength enough to parry off heavier slashing weapons.

Plus it was the sword of Washington.

That's very cool, now I must read up on it.

Honestly I despise the katana design. I see no benefit in the design over an equal quality Long sword. It is a better design for ease of cutting but a properly executed cut (a.k.a a draw cut) with a long sword is just as effective. But the long sword has additional benefits of a longer reach, better balance, a tip designed for thrusting, and my favorite which is the ability to half hand the sword. Half handing is incredibly useful in an area where precision is necessary (such as in a house). Oh and lets not forget the ability to strike with the pommel or hold the sword entirely by the blade and use the quillons as a makeshift billhook. Granted these last two are not going to commonly be used but the versatility is there if needed. This might just be me though because my background involves training with various swords and I know how to use them comfortably (when you fence you start to look into the true martial arts side as well). Maybe the katana will work better if you are wildly swinging it around but that is not my style

But I do not intend to start any "Kanata vs long sword, rapier, ect...." debates. My choice is in fact not any of those. It is a nice colichemarde or other stiff bladed small sword. A nice strong forte (rear part of the blade) and a very sturdy and precise foible (top part) for easy thrusting. I can parry anything I need and stick the pointy end where I need with speed.

Good logic and argument. I'm seeing some consensus here.

Let me ask all now, if the old necessity uses of swords are no longer true, ie fighting from horseback, or in an open field, or duels. Then the modern application for a defensive edged weapon would more likely be used in places and situations where a handgun might be used. Like defending your home or on a bus, etc. So reliability, conceal ability, speed of deployment, ease of use and lethality become more important. These are nearly the same critical factors in a handgun. The big difference may become legality, it's legal to defend yourself in your home with a sword, but you won't be carrying one around in public. Even a large fixed blade knife is illegal in Maryland if concealed (unless you have a handgun carry permit). So for all practical purposes, we are full circle back to carrying a large folder in public. I've heard several folks say they would use a sword for home defense, this got me thinking which would be best for this purpose. Sounds like the sword George Washington carried would be a good choice, and that's alright by me.

 

[Alea Jacta Est]

Hard to beat a good Wakashi. Zombie Tools (no joke) make a Hellion and a Hooligan design that both move naturally in the hand and have excellent blade geometry and balance. If you REALLY want a special defense tool...look at WALKBYFAITH777's fokos/valaska "walking stick"... That is a tool you can tame a beast with. They are every bit as solid and nice as they look...worth every stinking nickel.

PS. An Al Mar Warrior is Mac daddy for a CQB knife...find one if you're prone to CQB.

 

[Minuteman]

After only about an hour of reading, I've concluded it's true, George Washington did prefer the Colichemarde style blade; but he owned several swords over his lifetime and only about five have been authenticated, of at least seven he was known to have owned. The most famous of the Colichemarde style was his court sword, fancy with silver and all, but the one believed by most to have been used in his actual campaigning was a German hunting sword, single edged, very plain looking.

This is the most legitimate paper on the subject: http://americansocietyofarmscollectors.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/B032_Lindsay.pdf

Here's the most entertaining bit about G.Washingtons sword, start watching at about 28:00

 

[jimbobborg]

I would not be averse to owning one of these http://www.zombietools.net/shop/ferrous-wolf/ although the blade may be a bit too long for single-handed use for me.

 

[G O B]

I will stay with my 32" Collins machete. It will cut through a 3" cedar limb. I can use it for hours as I have used it on bamboo for the last 20 years.

 

[photoracer]

First of all anyone who has little or no experience and thinks they would be dangerous with a particular edged weapon is blowing smoke. Although against another rookie they might be. Nothing beats experience and training. Not strength or endurance or stamina although all those things will aid someone with the skill. Just like shooting, skill encompasses training practice and doing. The Roman legions had the training and skill not to mention that they most often fought barbarians hordes that barely qualified as armies most of the time. And usually slaughtered them at ratios of 20 to 1 or more. And I doubt anyone on this forum could even stand up to one of the barbarians in single combat. And the longer the history and evolution of the sword went the more skill and training it took to survive (and the shorter the duel). Like we used to say in martial arts its the skill of the warrior not the actual art he learned. A good swordman could work with any edged weapon from a dagger to a naginata. Personally in my life (younger days) I trained in Iaido with the katana, Wu-Shu with the straight sword, staff (bo), and spear, western fencing (sabre) plus I was involved in medieval and dark ages battle games for years using both practice and blunted real weapons. Using your favorite weapon to cut things will give you a feel for it but it will not give you any skill in combat. I have weapons I like to wield but just like rock, paper, and scissors every weapon has another that it would be at a disadvantage against in combat.

 

[Minuteman]

Very well said, and every word 100% true.

I also see you've taken this philosophy and dedication to training into shooting sports. We are kindred spirits, however I fear you may have an edge on me (pun intended).

 

[photoracer]

Very well said, and every word 100% true.

I also see you've taken this philosophy and dedication to training into shooting sports. We are kindred spirits, however I fear you may have an edge on me (pun intended).

Pun noted.

 

[Dogabutila]

I don't have much time with longer (than knife) edged weapons. Passing fancy but I started devoting more time to unarmed because it's just more practical.

Having said that, rapiers or sabers. Footwork, parry, riposte. I'm looking for blade speed and cuts to the wrist or forearm. I appreciate the point control and length of rapiers.