The "best" home defense firearm- Vigilance Elite

[hogarth]

I should know better than to post in this thread again.

I don’t like the video because the “star” doesn’t take into account different types of ammo. As I pointed out upthread, hostage shots with Federal Flite Control are VERY possible out to 10 yards or more. You don’t need to do a slug changeover. Some love the spread of shot from a shotgun so “you don’t have to be as accurate”. I find this a fallacious argument, since we are responsible for all pellets; the best place for them is in the bad guy.

Blaster has made some good points regarding maneuverability of the shotgun. Some of this can be mitigated with a shorter barrel (I went the NFA route) and also by “short-stocking”, something that works quite well in indoor/CQB situations. Unlike most people here, I have received a good amount of training with the shotgun in the self-defense role and that has included some CQB applications. The ability to operate it with one hand, as Blaster mentioned, is a bit compromised (I have shot accurately at in-home distances with one hand, but I am limited to that one round since my shotgun is a pump action).

For HD, the handgun is what is most likely to be near me when my front door is kicked in. However, if I had my druthers, the shotgun would be my choice. Why? Home defense is by its nature a close range, high stakes event. I want something that will end fights RIGHT NOW. There is no practical tool available to civilians that handles that better than the shotgun. Yes, it is somewhat limited in capacity, but how many rounds do you think a bad guy is going to absorb? Tom Givens could come up with no real-life case where a bad guy required more than two rounds of 00 buckshot. Yet, with carbines and pistols, those who shoot bad guys for a living often default to 5-8 rounds fired as quickly as possible in order to incapacitate the bad guys. Suddenly a 30 magazine in an AR doesn’t seem to hold so much, does it? Maybe 6 bad guys per magazine? My shotgun holds 6 shells, and I can top it off as I go, something that can’t be done with a carbine or pistol. From that perspective, you’re no worse off with the shotgun.

Recoil? Get proper training. I was able to hit A zone steel at 10 yards 3 times in 1.46 seconds with my SBS from low-ready in class. I’m 5’05 and 155 lbs. If I can do that with a pump gun, anyone can.

If I was an ex-Army guy who had been through basic and maybe time in the sandbox with an M4, I can see sticking with what I know and using an AR for HD. And I do also have an AR handy. But I think the shotgun properly loaded and with appropriate training (which does NOT include watching YouTube vids of Paul Harrell) makes it an excellent tool for HD.

 

[Trigger Time]

Leads me to believe a 38 special revolver is your best home defense option!!

 

[DP12]

Fortunately my home defense plan doesn't rely on a butter knife and shotgun laying on the floor next to each other.

And yet, you claimed the shottie is a "terrible" HD weapon, in part, without apparently considering that there are many kinds of shotties, and some of them make your objections...trouble maneuvering in a hallway or one-handed shooting etc, practically irrelevant. Whatever hypothetical scenario could lead to you being limited to one-handed shooting could also possibly include a scenario where your best laid HD plans have run headlong into reality, leaving as your weapons choices a butterknife or a shotgun (assuming you have one). I suspect you wouldn't choose the butterknife in that case, no matter how "terrible" you think shotties are.

My point is, shotguns aren't "terrible" HD weapons. You simply prefer something else, which is fine.

 

[PALYDIN11]

Good Video

That was a very informative Blaster 229. Thank you. I liked your comments on the shotgun. Also, pumping that shotgun tells the bad guys exactly were you are, throwing away any ambush advantage you may have had.

 

[PALYDIN11]

Thanks for the post Blaster. As much as I want to get all fancy, his experience says keep it simple (a good example is his EDC video). And I agree with his justification of his selecting an "expensive" MPX as home defense. Cost shouldn't be a consideration when it comes to the safety of your family. Although, I'm still leaning towards a Banshee, I will give the MPX a hard look.

I was looking at the Scorpion Evo 3 S1. Its alot cheaper but hopefully it can have the same results as the MPX.

 

[PowPow]

I don't disagree with Sean's video at all. I don't have a Sig MPX, but I do have a 45 carbine that I could outfit with nosler 185 gr hollow points. (what I load for bullseye with my 1911) But, that's another thing. For home defense, you want to use commercial ammunition (not your reloads) and train with it too.

 

[DP12]

Also, pumping that shotgun tells the bad guys exactly were you are, throwing away any ambush advantage you may have had.

Unless, of course, it makes them pee their pants and run away.

 

[PALYDIN11]

Unless, of course, it makes them pee their pants and run away.

LOL. good point.

 

[woodline]

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/05/29/ex-...-minute-workout-to-gain-mental-toughness.html

Relevant advice for most everyone who is stuck at home. Make sure 5 o'clock curls aren't the only kind you are doing.

My best home defense weapon was moving out to the sticks where crime is low to non-existent. FWIW this dude's tests aren't very scientific unless you get invaded by rubber dummies and his overpenetration advice for pistol/PCC vs SCHV rifle is backwards from what most ballistics experts seem to be saying, but the overall advice is pretty good. PCCs are easy to use. Hopefully your bullet that is traveling way faster than it is designed for due to the longer barrel doesn't overexpand and underpenetrate the bad guy, but whatever. Indian > arrow.

 

[inkd]

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/05/29/ex-...-minute-workout-to-gain-mental-toughness.html

Relevant advice for most everyone who is stuck at home. Make sure 5 o'clock curls aren't the only kind you are doing.

My best home defense weapon was moving out to the sticks where crime is low to non-existent. FWIW this dude's tests aren't very scientific unless you get invaded by rubber dummies and his overpenetration advice for pistol/PCC vs SCHV rifle is backwards from what most ballistics experts seem to be saying, but the overall advice is pretty good. PCCs are easy to use. Hopefully your bullet that is traveling way faster than it is designed for due to the longer barrel doesn't overexpand and underpenetrate the bad guy, but whatever. Indian > arrow.

I like the "several small wins" quote. That was something I struggled with as a youngster and still have to remind myself of. Especially as I get older.

 

[willtill]

I'm still undecided at this point between two shotguns. My TriStar Raptor ATAC or my Rem870.

The TriStar is semi auto with only a total of 6 rounds (one in chamber). My 870 has a mag extension so I can realize 9 rounds (one in chamber).

Been meaning to install a magazine extension on the TriStar but never got around to it. Maybe I'll order one and do it during this "stay at home" order. Takes a little more "smithing" to install one though...

 

[Blaster229]

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/05/29/ex-...-minute-workout-to-gain-mental-toughness.html

Relevant advice for most everyone who is stuck at home. Make sure 5 o'clock curls aren't the only kind you are doing.

My best home defense weapon was moving out to the sticks where crime is low to non-existent. FWIW this dude's tests aren't very scientific unless you get invaded by rubber dummies and his overpenetration advice for pistol/PCC vs SCHV rifle is backwards from what most ballistics experts seem to be saying, but the overall advice is pretty good. PCCs are easy to use. Hopefully your bullet that is traveling way faster than it is designed for due to the longer barrel doesn't overexpand and underpenetrate the bad guy, but whatever. Indian > arrow.

The video is "best firearm", not round/shell.
He speaks more to the features and benefits of the firearms. The penetration test certainly is not in scientific lab mode like most untrained statistic freaks love to tout. However, at least the test "material" was the same.
And you think he thinks that a non gel dummy properly simulates an actual human being torso? Or that an innocent bystander would be standing that close outside of a house? Of course not. But it sure is a close idea of what would happen when you miss that torso.

Best part of the video is when he points to the clown out front of his window

 

[jcutonilli]

The video is "best firearm", not round/shell.
He speaks more to the features and benefits of the firearms. The penetration test certainly is not in scientific lab mode like most untrained statistic freaks love to tout. However, at least the test "material" was the same.
And you think he thinks that a non gel dummy properly simulates an actual human being torso? Or that an innocent bystander would be standing that close outside of a house? Of course not. But it sure is a close idea of what would happen when you miss that torso.

Best part of the video is when he points to the clown out front of his window

I believe he called the non gel dummy "Bob". He did not really explain why he was shooting through "Bob" so his intention cannot be determined. He did add some kind of meat to several of the tests, but not all the tests, so the test "material" was not the same. Sometimes there was meat sometimes there was not. If this test were really about misses why was "Bob" or the meat even there?

He also talked about how green tip sucks to the video was not just about the "best firearm"

I would agree with you that the "best part of the video is when he points to the clown out front" The rest of the video, where he tries to make his point, is simply not very good.

 

[Blaster229]

I believe he called the non gel dummy "Bob". He did not really explain why he was shooting through "Bob" so his intention cannot be determined. He did add some kind of meat to several of the tests, but not all the tests, so the test "material" was not the same. Sometimes there was meat sometimes there was not. If this test were really about misses why was "Bob" or the meat even there?

He also talked about how green tip sucks to the video was not just about the "best firearm"

I would agree with you that the "best part of the video is when he points to the clown out front" The rest of the video, where he tries to make his point, is simply not very good.

Because your plethora of experience and training says so. Gotcha.
Keep trolling.

 

[jcutonilli]

Because your plethora of experience and training says so. Gotcha.
Keep trolling.

No those are the facts, they do not depend on experience or training.

 

[Blaster229]

.

 

[hogarth]

The video is "best firearm", not round/shell.
He speaks more to the features and benefits of the firearms. The penetration test certainly is not in scientific lab mode like most untrained statistic freaks love to tout. However, at least the test "material" was the same.
And you think he thinks that a non gel dummy properly simulates an actual human being torso? Or that an innocent bystander would be standing that close outside of a house? Of course not. But it sure is a close idea of what would happen when you miss that torso.

Best part of the video is when he points to the clown out front of his window

To be fair, I think it's a foolish argument or point to talk about the best "firearm" for a purpose without also talking about the projectiles they fire. The platform is really only half of the equation, and only exists to launch the projectiles.

Example: I like the shotgun for HD. But if all that was available was rubber buckshot or some type of birdshot, I'd choose something else.

Example 2: I'd feel good about recommending a handgun for HD, but if it's only a .25, or 9mm FMJ, again I would see if other options were available.

To just say "handgun" or " shotgun" or "carbine" without setting each up for success with the appropriate ammunition is kinda silly.

 

[Czechnologist]

 

[Blaster229]

Good thing in the OP I stated he said what he thinks is the best.

I should have known better that no one would just watch it for it's entertainment value and have something to think about.
Always happens.

 

[woodline]

I think it was an interesting video. Thank you for posting it.