Tell me if this is a legal Transfer Please!

[JasonB]

I don't see where it would be a straw purchase. In the initial transfer the father would be the actual purchaser of the firearm. Then the firearm is transferred to the son at an MD FFL and the paperwork requirement/waiting period is observed. In the MD transaction the son is the actual purchaser of the firearm.

I would think it would only be a straw purchase if they skipped the MD FFL step to transfer it to the son. The father is not giving it to the son until it has been transferred legally.

 

[SergeantEvil]

Just freaking buy it in maryland and stop being a cheap bastard.

 

[Drmsparks]

99% sure that if a firearm has ever been transferred to an individual, it is considered used and would not be subject to the shell casing requirement. Doesn't matter if it has ever been fired or not.

correct. Used guns do not require the shell casing.

What's the "loophole?' How do I not follow the law? Troll somewhere else! This is a forum for responsible law abiding firearms owners!

This is not a loophole or breaking the law.

I am not an attorney either, but if the whole purpose of this is to get around the MD shell casing law I think you would have a problem

both transactions are going through FFL's. A straw purchase specifically avoids the FFL and background check. This does neither.

Just freaking buy it in maryland and stop being a cheap bastard.

Stop and think about what's in stock in Maryland. It may take him a year to get it the firearm he likes. He's not saving money by paying for the extra transfer. He's just getting it legally and faster than another route.

 

[RugerRedbone]

Maryland Quartermaster in Bel Air did the shell casing for me at NO cost. Gun came from Bud's without the casing and they are an 07ffl, when I asked them how much for the service I was shocked when she said FREE.

 

[jmcisc]

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought it was OK for relatives to transfer weapons, at no cost, at an MSP barracks. After filling out the appropriate paperwork and being sure the weapon is on the approved list.

 

[ThatIsAFact]

I don't see where it would be a straw purchase. In the initial transfer the father would be the actual purchaser of the firearm.

In the scenario posed by the OP, the father would not be the "actual purchaser" as the term is used by the ATF. He would be purchasing the firearm at the direction of another person, and with the intent to turn over possession of the firearm to the person on whose behalf he is making the directed purchase. Please read the ATF material which I linked above.

 

[A1Uni]

You're correct about used not requiring a casing. The only potential issue I see (I'm not sure it is one) would be if there are any laws, Fed or PA, about purchasing a firearm with the intent to sell it.

It doesn't sound like he'd be "in the business", so probably not an issue, but might be worth some more googling.

So, now our curiosity is up! What are you planning to get?

Good luck!

You hit it.



Straw sale, violation of Federal law.


Just have the gun transferred to an 07 FFL in Maryland.

FYI, we don't charge extra to fire for the casing when a gun is transferred, and dealers that do don't charge that much.

Don't try to tap dance around the law.

 

[SergeantEvil]

correct. Used guns do not require the shell casing.



This is not a loophole or breaking the law.



both transactions are going through FFL's. A straw purchase specifically avoids the FFL and background check. This does neither.



Stop and think about what's in stock in Maryland. It may take him a year to get it the firearm he likes. He's not saving money by paying for the extra transfer. He's just getting it legally and faster than another route.

The op doesn't even know what he wants. He is just trying to figure away around the shell casing law.

 

[regulator]

yes it's legal. I used to have a copy of a judges ruling. i will see if i can find it and post it.

 

[ThatIsAFact]

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought it was OK for relatives to transfer weapons, at no cost, at an MSP barracks. After filling out the appropriate paperwork and being sure the weapon is on the approved list.

Yes, but only for two Maryland residents, I believe. We're discussing, above, the federal law requirements that come into play when there is (1) a purchase from an FFL dealer, and (2) an interstate transfer.

 

[gmhowell]

yes it's legal. I used to have a copy of a judges ruling. i will see if i can find it and post it.

That might actually shed some light on the discussion.

In lieu of that, to the OP, I'd say 'stop being so cheap'. You are going to pay for shipping and a transfer to a MD FFL in any event. The cost of the shell casing is de minimus. There has been an IP who stood up and said "I'll do it for free" and there are multiple others around the state who would do it for free or maybe $5-$10. You won't save anything by doing it your way.

 

[Biggfoot44]

I can see that the OP is potentially focused on selection and avaability.
Once a hypothetical firearm is transfered to a nonFFL , it is used. This would make fired casing in Md irrelevent. Also make most warrenties not applicable also.

Then there is "Straw Purchase" and "Actual Purchaser" .

The same concrete physical actions can have several meanings depending on the context and the mind reading taking place.

An FFL who has been recently *sensitized* ( aka threatened) by ATF/ MSP will cover their butt by refusing sales for absurd imaginary reasons ( been there , had it happen ). Then there is the question of what level of evidence will trigger a particular SA / Trooper to file charges. Likewise at what level an AUSA/ ASA would feel worthwhile to prosecute , and finally would you be actually convicted.

We answer about the current history of prosecutions , or how a moderatly enthuastic SA/ Trooper could interpet things, or finally a common sense answer.

If in conversation with an SA/ Trooper Dad were ever to make or agree with statement to the effect of " Jounior wanted me to get an XYZ for him " , then bouth of you *could* become Involentary Test Cases.

Ironically inquiring first could put you'll in a less defensable position than if you had just spontainously done it.

 

[Kilroy]

If it's a new gun, it probably has the casing already in there. If you're worried about ending up in some registry, rumor is that they just throw all the casings in a barrel somewhere.

 

[retrorichard]

I think constitutional firearms does it for 20.00

 

[rico903]

99% sure that if a firearm has ever been transferred to an individual, it is considered used and would not be subject to the shell casing requirement. Doesn't matter if it has ever been fired or not.

I agree. Just make sure he doesn't send the casing. I had a seller do that and the FFL treated it as a new gun and charged me extra for having to send in a casing. Last time I use that FFL.
AS mentioned earlier, just makse sure it is on the roster, they have weird rules. I don't know that you would save money though as your Dad would have to overnite the gun, $60-$70 plus transfer fees here. He could bring it to a MD FFL and save the shipping fees.

 

[Vile Shadow]

What's the "loophole?' How do I not follow the law? Troll somewhere else! This is a forum for responsible law abiding firearms owners!

Umm, who ya talkin to bud?

 

[Saginaw]

Can the guys father buy the gun as a gift for his son?

 

[jmcisc]

Yes, but only for two Maryland residents, I believe. We're discussing, above, the federal law requirements that come into play when there is (1) a purchase from an FFL dealer, and (2) an interstate transfer.

Thanks for the response. However, I'm not a MD resident and my son is. I've transferred weapons to him using the method I previously mentioned.

 

[Waz]

Thanks for the response. However, I'm not a MD resident and my son is. I've transferred weapons to him using the method I previously mentioned.

Did you and your son simply go to an msp barracks?

I'm in a similar situation... I've heard it was possible but even the ffls i talked to 'round here said it would need to be transferred through them... which means another $50-$75

 

[ThatIsAFact]

appears to violate federal law

Thanks for the response. However, I'm not a MD resident and my son is. I've transferred weapons to him using the method I previously mentioned [i.e., transfer at a Maryland State Police barracks].

That is very interesting. I've pasted in below the text of the Maryland statute dealing with "secondary transactions." As you see, the state law does not say anything about residency. I've also reviewed the MSP regulation that implements this statute (COMAR 29.03.01.05), and it does not say anything about residency. The statute that defines "secondary sale" [Public Safety Article 5-101(r)] also says nothing about residency.

However, I believe that transfer of a handgun via the MSP, with either buyer or seller being a non-resident of Maryland, is a violation of federal law (the Gun Control Act). The federal law comes into play when buyer and seller are residents of different states.

Even if I am correct strictly as a matter of law, you shouldn't lose any sleep over any past transactions that may have been irregular. You clearly were trying to comply with the law when you went to the MSP. However, I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice.

I hope somebody out there can produce evidence that I am wrong about the law on this -- I'd certainly be pleased to learn that the MSP is an option for these interstate transfers.

PUBLIC SAFETY
TITLE 5. FIREARMS
SUBTITLE 1. REGULATED FIREARMS

Md. PUBLIC SAFETY Code Ann. § 5-124 (2012)

§ 5-124. Secondary transactions

(a) Seven-day waiting period. --

(1) A person who is not a licensee may not sell, rent, transfer, or purchase a regulated firearm until after 7 days following the time a firearm application is executed by the firearm applicant, in triplicate, and the original is forwarded by a licensee to the Secretary.

(2) As an alternative to completing a secondary sale of a regulated firearm through a licensee, a prospective seller, lessor, or transferor and a prospective purchaser, lessee, or transferee may complete the transaction through a designated law enforcement agency.

(b) Processing fee. -- A firearm applicant for a secondary sale of a regulated firearm through a licensee shall pay to the licensee a processing fee not exceeding $ 20.

(c) Completion required in 90 days. -- A person shall complete the sale, rental, or transfer of a regulated firearm within 90 days after the firearm application was stamped by the Secretary as not being disapproved.

(d) Incomplete transactions. --

(1) If the sale, rental, or transfer of a regulated firearm is not completed within 90 days after the firearm application was stamped by the Secretary as not being disapproved, a person shall return the firearm application to the Secretary within 7 days.

(2) The Secretary shall void a firearm application returned under paragraph (1) of this subsection as an incomplete sale, rental, or transfer.

(e) Notification of completed transaction. --

(1) (i) A person who sells, rents, or transfers a regulated firearm in compliance with this subtitle shall forward a copy of the written notification of the completed transaction to the Secretary within 7 days after delivery of the regulated firearm.

(ii) The notification shall contain an identifying description of the regulated firearm, including its caliber, make, model, any manufacturer's serial number, and any other special or peculiar characteristic or marking by which the regulated firearm may be identified.

(2) The Secretary shall maintain a permanent record of all notifications received of completed sales, rentals, and transfers of regulated firearms in the State.

HISTORY: An. Code 1957, art. 27, § 442(d), (l), (m); 2003, ch. 5, § 2.