Target/Clay Load For Saiga-12? I'm Having Some Cycling Problems

[hole punch]

Shotgun N00b here..

I've tried a variety of light target loads from Remington and Winchester in the Saiga-12 and most have failed miserably at cycling properly in the gun. I've tried both gas settings, #2 is the "open" setting for lighter loads.

The best luck I've had was some random Winchester #7 1/2 shot I found at Dick's on my way to the November shotgun shoot at Thurmont. Those cycled fine in PaulN's Saiga-12 once we flipped the gas over setting #2, but these same loads fail to eject about 1/3rd of the time in my gun. Those are the best ones I've found so far.

The worst ones I've found we're these Remington #8 shot bulk pack I found at Wal-Mart. They NEVER eject at all, and most usually don't even extract, basically turning the gun into a straight pull bolt action.

What's usually happening is the shell extracts just fine but only partially ejects, with the bolt crushing the shell against the chamber face not unlike a "stovepipe" in a handgun. The soft plastic becomes wrapped around or even impaled on the sharp edges of the barrel and you have hold the bolt carrier rearward while manually plucking the hull out of the action.

Again, I'm using gas setting "2" which is supposedly the wide open setting: http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=262
The weapon cycles just fine using buckshot and slugs, on either setting, although it slams back noticable harder with 00 buck on the #2 setting (which I just read you're NOT supposed to do.. oops)

Could it be I got a bum gas regulator? Think it can be reamed out bigger? Should I just avoid light target loads altogether?

Thanks in advance! -hole punch

 

[repair-man]

You should avoid the lighter loads. I wouldn't try anything under 1200 fps. Give the Remington Premier Nitro Target Loads a try. They come in a gold shell. Give those a run and see if you have any cycling issues. Those are 1300 fps, then you can work your way down from there to the less expensive lower powder.

 

[hole punch]

ah, so fps is the magic metric. I was thinking it was the dram weight equivalent or whatever. I'll try and pick up some bird loads with high fps

 

[wyomingboy]

No, fps isn't the magic cure. It is unlikely that the Nitros (which, BTW are not 1300fps - they are 1235fps) would be reliable either. No target loads will be reliable in that gun unless you alter the gun to handle them. If you do that and go back to buckshot or slugs, then you will beat up the gun. That gun simply wasn't designed for targets or target loads. Heavy field loads of 1 1/4 to 1 3/8 ounce of shot "might" work, but it would be self defeating because the cost and recoil is elevated to about what buckshot is. The buckshot and slugs work in that contraption due to the "combination" of speed, heavier payload and higher pressure.

 

[repair-man]

I was referring to the Premier Nitro Sporting Clays and not the Nitro 27's which are 1235


http://www.remington.com/products/ammunition/shotshell/target/premier_nitro_gold.asp

Just give 'em a try and let us know. A saiga 12 is on my list and I'd love to shoot some trap with it just for fun.

 

[mdjamesd]

is the gas valve clean?
what about the gas tube and piston?
When you push the bolt back, and compresses the buffer spring, can you feel it catching on anything? Have you tried lubing the buffer spring, tube, etc?
Have you properly lubed the bolt, receiver, moving parts?

 

[Jaybeez]

This is a common problem with the saiga12's quality control during manufacturing. 19" barrel models should have 4 ports in a diamond formation in the barrel. The gas block has 1 large hole. Many times part of the gas block is blocking one of the barrel ports. To check just remove your gas knob and piston and look or feel with a pick. There are a few ways to fix this, best is to remove the gas block and enlarge the 1 hole so it doesnt block your barrel ports. I was able to do this on the gun with a dremmel, it only needed a little material removed. After reassembly, walmart bulk packs work great.

Look at the saiga 12 forum for more info, they call the blocked ports guns "ivan specials".

 

[wilcam47]

this is supposed to help...the 20 rd drum is on this site too...I didnt/dont have any problems shooting the walmart brand low brass...i shoot a little skeet with it but it does shoot different than a regular shotgun and i am still getting used to where the shot patter is...but it is a great gun!

http://www.mdarms.com/scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=1724

 

[HarEngSer]

I've got some nice Rio shells that everyone else thinks are "too heavy" that might help. If you want to go the ammo route. They are also a high brass target load run 1300 FPS (Max Dram) 7 1/2 1 1/8 ounce.

 

[wyomingboy]

repair-man,

My mistake... I see what you are talking about with the 1300fps stuff. Still relatively low pressure if the same powders are used.

Gas guns can be modified to bleed off more gas and therefore make the gun work. A plug of sorts should be made to close the extra hole when using stiffer stuff. Seems like a lot of trouble though.

 

[Inigoes]

Take a look at the MDarms.com Gasfixer plug.
http://www.mdarms.com/scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=1724

 

[wilcam47]

i already gave him that link

 

[IlikeNFA]

The gunfixr plug, combined with the King Armory tappet has solved many of these issues. Furthermore, polishing the bolt/bcg and/or just having more holes drilled or enlarging will pretty much ensure feeding and extracting of any rounds. My guess is once you get the issues resolved, it will be your fav. gun...I know mine is!

 

[_JT_]

i bought the MDArms plug, havent had a chance to see the difference shooting it off, as ive only pumped out 15 slugs when i first got it.

I can definitely say the quality of gunfixers plug is just off the charts compared to the factory one.

 

[IlikeNFA]

ya its a far nicer piece, much better for its purpose, and far more user-friendly with being able to be turned by hand. pretty much a no-brainer must for the gun.

 

[maynard1]

maybe

i read on a saiga forum to press the retintion button down and make sure the reg is screwed all the way in and then back it out to position 1 or 2 my buddy has a saiga 12 and it will shoot any thing he puts in it

 

[ezeerider]

There's a lot of info here about correcting cycling problems in the Saiga 12:
http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=55377&st=0

Also, the first two springs on this page can help cycle light loads:
http://store.carolinashooterssupply.com/servlet/-strse-ALL-SAIGA-PARTS/Categories?sfs=c61b5638

and as mentioned before, the gasfixr plug helps too.

there is a new plug that automatically adjusts between light and heavy loads.
it won't correct a gun that won't cycle heavy loads, but once the gun is modified to shoot them,
this plug will allow you to shoot heavy and light loads without adjusting the plug. You can find it here:
http://www.tac47industries.com/content-product_info/product_id-2297/tac_12_t_g_r_s_plug.html

 

[SOMDSHOOT]

yeah the lighter loads will not cycle most. I have a buddy who has a Browning and the cheap $20.00 / 100 box I get from walmart will work fine in my 20 Remington 870 and 12 Mossberg 500, but, they will not cycle his Browning due to the lack of recoil. I use the cheap shotguns for clays so the ammo is cheaper for the fun of the purpose, I'll save the expensive stuff for the real hunting.

 

[h2u]

Hopefully almost a year and a half later with no additional comments, hole punch has the issues ironed out

 

[SOMDSHOOT]

Hopefully almost a year and a half later with no additional comments, hole punch has the issues ironed out

LOL I never noticed the date. (shhh... i think it's Maynards fault)