Talking points regarding gun laws

The #1 community for Gun Owners of the Northeast

Member Benefits:

  • No ad networks!
  • Discuss all aspects of firearm ownership
  • Discuss anti-gun legislation
  • Buy, sell, and trade in the classified section
  • Chat with Local gun shops, ranges, trainers & other businesses
  • Discover free outdoor shooting areas
  • View up to date on firearm-related events
  • Share photos & video with other members
  • ...and so much more!
  • Minuteman

    Member
    BANNED!!!
    Share a few sound bites from others:

    Something to remember- gun control laws are “malum prohibitum” laws — meaning that their stated purpose is to prevent actual crimes by removing the ability for criminals to get their hands on something that would enable them.
    On the other hand, a “malum in se” law, such as rape, is a crime because it is evil in and of itself.

    Anyone giving an honest reading of the Second Amendment knows that its intent was to put the citizens on equal footing with the soldiers of the day.
    “Equal footing” being the operative clause, regardless of the actual technology in use; thus keeping up with the evolution of firearms we have today and in the future.
    The bottom line is that our founding fathers absolutely intended for citizens of any era to be able to overthrow any oppressive government then, now, or in the future.

    The Supreme Court has interpreted this language to mean that firearms which are in common use cannot be banned.
    Since nuclear weapons aren’t in common use, the straw man argument falls apart. As we have seen in Iraq and Afghanistan, even a disorganized group of insurgents with rifles can easily bloody the nose of the U.S. military (and bring the Russians to their knees), so this nullifies the argument that the Army is just too powerful to resist with commonly used firearms.

    Last year approximately 15,000 people in the US died due to violence. Antis say killed by “violence.” Half of those are suicides, which no sane person would classify as a “violent crime.”
    Unless you also think that masturbation is rape.

    The flip side of those 15,000 deaths per year are approximately ~2.5 million crimes prevented by legal gun use every single year.
    Crimes including rape, murder and felony assault. But for some reason, gun grabbers never seem to recognize that side of the equation.

    Our country needs an honest and serious conversation about violence, but blaming guns is naive and closed-minded view of the world.
     
    Last edited:

    soco

    Active Member
    May 21, 2012
    182
    we need harder numbers on the "2.5 million crimes prevented". I know its impossible to quantify, but a lot of people dismiss that out of hand as its not exactly provable
     

    MJD438

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 28, 2012
    5,854
    Somewhere in MD
    The problem that I have run into with many folks in my life - logic does not compete with emotion. People will claim to listen, but will not comprehend.
     

    Mr H

    Unincited Co-Conservative
    All valid points, and worthy of distribution.

    But there's the rub... How to get the word out. Who will do it? Not the mass media, that's for sure.

    Internet outlets tend to be interest-based, and folks don't usually go the 'opposition' sites for information.

    Print is dying.

    "Social Media" is a joke for real information.

    We end up "preaching to the choir" on much of this, and unless/until there is a real break in the Progressive stranglehold on the media (think, "Ministry of Information"), we're paddling upstream.

    Don't get me wrong: we still need to keep pushing, and there are signs of progress... but it's a long, hard slog ahead.
     

    501st

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 16, 2011
    1,629
    All valid points, and worthy of distribution.

    But there's the rub... How to get the word out. Who will do it? Not the mass media, that's for sure.

    Internet outlets tend to be interest-based, and folks don't usually go the 'opposition' sites for information.

    Print is dying.

    "Social Media" is a joke for real information.

    We end up "preaching to the choir" on much of this, and unless/until there is a real break in the Progressive stranglehold on the media (think, "Ministry of Information"), we're paddling upstream.

    Don't get me wrong: we still need to keep pushing, and there are signs of progress... but it's a long, hard slog ahead.

    Bury the opposition in facts (legitimate ones) at every opportunity. If they pull the banned "research" line, show them the report commissioned by Obama that essentially contradicts the calls for gun control.

    Once it has been established that the facts are on our side, we can then move to an emotional argument to counter that of the opposition.

    I'm sure you've seen the photo memes about rape/mugging being temporary and death being forever? While many of those were fake, in a few instances they were endorsed by a gun control group. Use this against them, and come up with our own unique emotional plays. There is plenty of evidence that compliance with the demands of a criminal does not guarantee/ensure that you will not be harmed. Also if you are not in a "secure" area, then there is no reason to not have the ability to defend yourself should you need it.
     

    ryan_j

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 6, 2013
    2,264
    The mass media works, sorta. We can start with letters to the editor, and public demonstrations.

    But that is a very minor component of the overall effort.
     

    danb

    dont be a dumbass
    Feb 24, 2013
    22,704
    google is your friend, I am not.
    The thing about gun laws is that there are 33k auto deaths per year, including some really fiery sensational mass deaths every month, I don't hear about banning 18-wheelers or delivery trucks. In fact, what I hear is build more roads and infrastructure - jobs!!

    Auto deaths have declined, not because we banned cars or erected significant burdens to getting a drivers license (in fact, about 1 of 7 drivers on the road is unlicensed). We recognize people misuse them and engineered them with a safety margin - seat belts, air bags, door reinforcements, crumple zones, etc. We also educate people not to be distracted or drive drunk, and we increased the penalties for those things.

    If you even suggested any of the prohibitionist tactics for cars, you would get laughed at (except maybe in NYC).

    If we regulated gun like cars, we would dispense with the debate about the right to have and carry them, and stop raising substantial burdens to keep and bear them. Most of the aversion to safety technology is really that it represents a substantial burden unrelated to actual safety. Few people are against safety technology, most are against unworkable mandates.

    If we took the same approach as we do cars, we would take an approach that recognizes that people will misuse them: Education (esp, mental health and suicide prevention), allow the market to experiment with safety technology (no mandates); and penalize more heavily people who do misuse them.

    Unlike some people who might be depressed that the SCT court will take certain options off the table, I think its the beginning of sensible safety, not the end. Sensible safety recognizes that adults sometimes make bad choices no matter what the law says.
     

    highfructosecornsyrup

    Active Member
    Apr 2, 2012
    613
    baltimore city
    The problem that I have run into with many folks in my life - logic does not compete with emotion. People will claim to listen, but will not comprehend.

    I notice this as well. They can be hard headed, stuck in their ways. Some just can't make up their mind. Sad they might need to learn for them selves, rather than learning from experiences of others like break ins, rape, robbery etc etc.
     

    ryan_j

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 6, 2013
    2,264
    How do I counter the assertion that "magazine limits save lives because a shooter has to reload?"
     

    danb

    dont be a dumbass
    Feb 24, 2013
    22,704
    google is your friend, I am not.
    How do I counter the assertion that "magazine limits save lives because a shooter has to reload?"

    Cho, Columbine shooters, many others all reloaded. Only takes a second, less time than you can sprint and jump them. Cho had like 19 magazines. I am pretty sure the Navy Yard shooter reloaded his shotgun too, a lot harder than a pistol.

    If you have not seen Gura's analysis of the history of mags, btw, its a good read. 20 rnd mags predate the constitution.
     

    DC-W

    Ultimate Member
    Patriot Picket
    Jan 23, 2013
    25,290
    ️‍
    we need harder numbers on the "2.5 million crimes prevented". I know its impossible to quantify, but a lot of people dismiss that out of hand as its not exactly provable

    It's hard. That study was conducted in the 90's. It can be found here:
    http://www.guncite.com/gcdgklec.html

    Here's another study, this one from the Clinton era that suggested there were around 1.5 million DGUs yearly: http://www.tscm.com/165476.pdf

    This is a comprehensive breakdown of estimated DGUs every year - from the most conservative numbers to the least:

    http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/20...of-the-second-amendment-without-the-benefits/
     

    Brooklyn

    I stand with John Locke.
    Jan 20, 2013
    13,095
    Plan D? Not worth the hassle.
    How do I counter the assertion that "magazine limits save lives because a shooter has to reload?"

    Ask them to take an unloaded. Or even better a blue gun from you. Use basic retention techniques. Unless they are trained not likely to work.

    If online ask them what pistol whip means. Have them Google butt stroke. ..

    Ask them if they are willing to be the one to charge the guy reloading..

    Tell them that to pass moss training course a tactical reload has to be done in about 1 sec..

    After that its not worth taking to fools.
     
    Last edited:

    teratos

    My hair is amazing
    MDS Supporter
    Patriot Picket
    Jan 22, 2009
    59,975
    Bel Air
    Common use:


    I think it is important to delve a little deeper into "common use". We talk about it a lot. Common use by whom? The correct answer should be "common use by the military". As MM already stated, the 2A was to put citizens on equal footing with the military (I would argue that the intent was for the military to be outgunned, but I would prefer to argue it further over a beer) and we cannot be on equal footing with the military with double barrel shotguns and single shot hunting rifles.
     

    The sphinx

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 27, 2013
    1,458
    Delaware
    we need harder numbers on the "2.5 million crimes prevented". I know its impossible to quantify, but a lot of people dismiss that out of hand as its not exactly provable

    I agree. What did the CDC say? I think the report they did on firearm violence said that anywhere between 500k and 3million times per year a firearm is used in a defensive situation
     

    Old Salty Dog

    Ultimate Member
    Nov 4, 2008
    1,339
    Southern Maryland
    We will not win this with facts alone. Our society has been conditioned and trained to respond emotionally, not logically. The rise of films, radio, and television have rewired our culture. We need to tell lots of emotional stories that support our facts - the stories behind the DGUs. The women and kids who escaped unharmed because a gun was in the hands of a 'good guy.'

    We need to retake the culture. How successful do you think we'll be at recruiting young shooters who have graduated, er, pushed out of, the 'OMG it's a Pop Tart that looks like a gun….RUN!!!!!' schools with their indoctrination that all guns are bad all the time?

    We need a lot more folks like Dinesh D'Souza who can tell cultural stories that will help preserve our freedoms. And above all, we need educated voters. Not low information voters.

    Rant over.
     

    Users who are viewing this thread

    Latest posts

    Forum statistics

    Threads
    276,070
    Messages
    7,307,043
    Members
    33,566
    Latest member
    Pureblood

    Latest threads

    Top Bottom