TA01NSN on Steyr AUG A3?

[erwos]

Anyone have experience with or thoughts about how well a TA01NSN would work on an AUG A3 (low rail)? Eye relief worries me a bit.

 

[baconsandwich]

I was very tempted to try that same optic on my AUG, but didn't do it because I was concerned about eye relief. Seems like I would have to scrunch way forward on the stock, as in with my face right about where the ejection port is. In the end, I wasn't up for dropping almost a grand on an ACOG that may or may not work for me. (using an Aimpoint PRO on it for now)

 

[erwos]

Yeah, it really seems like it has potential, especially given that the AUG doesn't have built-in BUIS ala the Tavor. I've seen some pictures of the Aussies running TA01NSNs on their F88s, so it must not be THAT horrible in some configuration.

Another option to get the optic closer in would be the GDI R-COM mount - hard to believe you'd have trouble with another 3.5" of rearward placement.

 

[SCARCQB]

Eye relief should not be much of an issue, the rail on the A3 is long enough to move the scope forward or the rear to get proper eye relief.The 5.56/223 will also not recoil much to worry about the mark of the cresent over your eyebrow.

The two issues I had with the TA01 NSN on an A3 are:

Since the AUG rail taller when compared to an AR flat top, It will mount the ACOG a bit too high for a comfortable cheekweld, it is more like a chin weld position and does not line up instinctively like on an AR.

The second issue is the higher than normal Height over bore, which translates into some funky ballistics and inaccurate BDC for longer distances. A 25 yard zero will result in a 25/ 525 yard zero. Due to the HOB issue. You may have to come up with your own dope in addition to the BDC to make the ACOG work on the AUG A3.

I had one mounted on my AUG years ago. I simply gave up and now use a original Steyr 1.5x optic.

 

[baconsandwich]

Just looked up the GDI R-COM, that does seem like it would do the trick. Tempting...

 

[SCARCQB]

Another factoid to consider is that the TA01NSN was specifically designed for the SOPMOD M4.( 14" barrel and firing a 62 grain projectile). The bullet drop compensator is specifically designed for this rifle. variations in bullet weight, velocity and Height of the sight over the barrel ( aka height over bore or barrel) will screw up the preset bullet drop compensator.

If you insist on using an acog for the A3, use a model that is designed for the carry handle mount such as the TA01, TA11 which is designed for a higher HOB.the TA01 NSN is specific for the M4

 

[baconsandwich]

Sounds like good advice, thanks

 

[SCARCQB]

I like the original steyr 1.5x optic. It is easy to use and a functional BUIS is molded onto the scope body. Its almost as fast as my Eotech. Eye relief is also very forgiving. ( you can hold thevUG at arms lenght and stil see the donut of death)

 

[erwos]

Since the AUG rail taller when compared to an AR flat top, It will mount the ACOG a bit too high for a comfortable cheekweld, it is more like a chin weld position and does not line up instinctively like on an AR.

This wasn't quite my experience with other AR-height optics on my AUG. Remember, I have the low rail, not the high rail that comes with the CQB variant.

The second issue is the higher than normal Height over bore, which translates into some funky ballistics and inaccurate BDC for longer distances. A 25 yard zero will result in a 25/ 525 yard zero. Due to the HOB issue. You may have to come up with your own dope in addition to the BDC to make the ACOG work on the AUG A3.

Yeah, I kinda figured. TA11 would be a better choice from a BDC perspective, but I rather wanted those BUIS, and the TA01NSN can be found really cheap when used...

I guess what I really want is the TA01ADF, but I doubt Trijicon is selling those to mere mortals. :-P

I had one mounted on my AUG years ago. I simply gave up and now use a original Steyr 1.5x optic.

The cost of one of these would be more than the used TA01NSN I was thinking about ($525 for the optic plus another ~$200 for the high rail). Hard to see shelling out that kind of money for a non-illiminated 1.5x optic.

 

[SCARCQB]

Low rails on AUGs are still higher than AR flat tops. In theory, it would still bugger up the BDC in the TA01NSN. Run a ballistic calculator and vary the HOB. Keep all other data the same. HOB will make a big diffenence.

This the same issue with the Tavor or any other bullpup. I see French FAMAS, Croatian VHS or Australian F88s with optics mounted really high. The worse are German G36 rifles with Eotechs mounted about 7" HOB. Most ballistic caluculators wil not even allow that kind of data to be factored in.

 

[RCH]

There is a post on ar15.com that shows that the height of the top of the rail from the rifle's comb is .530 for an AR15, and .590 for the AUG A3 (note: AUGs with military high rail version is .905) Not much difference- .06 of an inch.

Just food for thought- I was looking around as to what to put on my AUG. I am saving up for a Trijicon TA44SG10. The TA44 series is a small, light 1.5x optic with a circle dot reticle. I checked one out at the gun shop and really liked the green glowing reticle. I liked the fact that it is compact, light (about 8 ounces with ADM mount), and the 1.5x power since it pays homage to the original scope- but is a vast improvement. As a bonus, It looks like I can keep my rear magpul MBUS mounted.

 

[SCARCQB]

There is a post on ar15.com that shows that the height of the top of the rail from the rifle's comb is .530 for an AR15, and .590 for the AUG A3 (note: AUGs with military high rail version is .905) Not much difference- .06 of an inch.

Just food for thought- I was looking around as to what to put on my AUG. I am saving up for a Trijicon TA44SG10. The TA44 series is a small, light 1.5x optic with a circle dot reticle. I checked one out at the gun shop and really liked the green glowing reticle. I liked the fact that it is compact, light (about 8 ounces with ADM mount), and the 1.5x power since it pays homage to the original scope- but is a vast improvement. As a bonus, It looks like I can keep my rear magpul MBUS mounted.

height of comb and height over bore/ barrel are totally different things. comb refers to the stock/ cheekweld while HOB is the distance between the scope and the barrel.

Comb has nothing to do with ballistics/ optics. HOB determines how acute of an angle a rifle barrel will have to be tilted up in relation to the optic's line of sight so that they may zero or intersect at a certain known distance. The higher the difference, the more acute that angle is going to be.

 

[SCARCQB]

just a rough estimate:

AR rifles have a height over bore of about 2.6", An MSAR STG556 with 1.5x optic/ AUG A1 also has a 2.6" HOB. A TA01NSN mounted on an AUG A3 will have about a 3.4" HOB....and my Tavor with a zero comb stock has a HOB of ........( drumroll please)............ 4"

Note: the Ta01NSN 's bullet drop compensator is calibrated for a 2.6" HOB, anything higher will drastically affect its accuracy at longer distances.

A buddy of mine spent his vacation money on a Tavor and an ACOG before October1. HEight over bore on this set up is about 4.2". He zeroed it at a 25 yard indoor range and almost ran out of elevation adjustment. Confident of his set up.... We shot it at 100 yards. The thing shot about 11" high. AR 15 with the same zero distance will shoot about 5.5" high.

Lesson is HOB and Zero distance drastically affects bullet tragectory. This is why I gave up on the TA01 NSN on my AUG years ago. better off with other ACOGs like the TA11 and mount an RMR on top. Since we cant buy anything evil looking in Maryland post Oct 1, might as well spend the money on kick azz optics and improve on what you already have.

 

[erwos]

This page seems to explain the problem pretty well:
http://coloradoshooting.org/acog_bdc_chart.htm

According to SCARCQB, the AUG HOB is 3.4, which is essentially the same as the carry handle HOB of 3.5.

So, it looks like the TA01NSN is out due to BDC, and I should be looking at the carry-handle BDC ACOGs... just like SCARCQB said. Unfortunately, that means my choices for BUIS become flip-ups (which I don't think do well on the AUG) or a FF/RMR/MRDS/etc. Seems like maybe I should take a page from Steyr and not bother with them.

I will bet dollars to doughnuts that the TA01ADF winds up being a TA01NSN with the carry-handle BDC. Sell them, Trijicon!

 

[SCARCQB]

You can go with other ACOG models and gain the bindon aiming feature and fiber optic illumination in addtion to tritium. I like the chevron reticle better than the stadia lines of the TA01NSN. Just mount an RMR on top of the ACOG and be done with it. Thrn follow the ACOG zeroing chart to keep the BDC functional.

 

[Nemesis]

just ordered a ta33 red horseshoe...ive spent months looking at acogs, and decided this best fits what i want.

long eye relief, i can add flip up caps, low profile, light weight...and the horseshoe seems like a nice cross between a aimpoint and eotech...cant wait to get it lol

 

[erwos]

I think I'm going to go for a TA11D. Height over bore should be about correct for the BDC, and I like the triangle. Extra eye relief won't hurt, either.

This was a really fascinating discussion, given my non-familiarity with BDC and height over bore issues, so thank you very much!

 

[crolfe1984]

I'm a sucker for factory guns, or civi variants of modern military arms. Went for the updated factory 1.5 "donut of death" optic on my CQC. (Pic I've used before)

 

[TwinTurboDiesel]

I'm a sucker for factory guns, or civi variants of modern military arms. Went for the updated factory 1.5 "donut of death" optic on my CQC. (Pic I've used before)

Same here. I like factory.

 

[SCARCQB]

I'm old school too and like the factory optic.

Im right hand dominant and shoot with my left eye using a bullpup. So what if i have bad trigger manners?