Submitted Wear and Carry Renewal

[campns]

WTF? Instead of Wear & Carry 8 hour renewal you could just take 4hr HQL training????

No, as a MD Certified Handgun trainer you can write certificates for the HQL 4 hour, 8 hour Renewal, and 16 initial CCW training.

You still would need 8 hours training by a MD certified instructor.

"Approved Wear and Carry Permit training courses are offered by Maryland State Police approved Qualified Handgun Instructors who have established an account through the Maryland State Police MyLicense/E-Gov site. Training is valid until the permit expiration. However, you must receive subsequent training within 2 years of submitting your renewal application."

 

[buellsfurn]

Yes.

I didn't first time around. instructor told us it wasn't mandatory and or they couldn't ask you for bank statements. Has that changed ?

 

[campns]

I didn't first time around. instructor told us it wasn't mandatory and or they couldn't ask you for bank statements. Has that changed ?

Depends really on what your G&S is to be honest.

 

[daggo66]

No, that is a one time thing only. I did include a copy of my certificate in my renewal packet from when I originally did the training though, just to be safe. I try to send in as detailed and thorough application as I can just to try and avoid any issues. When I had my original permit interview the Trooper told me there is no such thing as too much detail in your app. Just make sure to give the proper details.

You slipped through the crack somehow. The training is required for each renewal.

 

[GlockxRob]

Just wanted to update everyone on my permit process thus far.

I went to my informal review where 1SG sustained the denial back in July. I immediately reacted asking for a HPRB hearing (formal hearing) which I complete this past tuesday (OCT 3). The Board saw fit that I indeed had G&S and overturned the MDSP to issue an unrestricted permit. G&S can be found below. Thanks.

1. For any lawful purpose;

2. OPM data breach, Due to the recent hacking of the Office of Personnel Management System database, which I am apart of, is currently being sold Online which contains all but not limited to the following information contained on the SF86; A. Current security clearances held, B. current address of work, C. current address of residence, D. physical description as well as immediate family members, E. military history. F. Full name, G. Social Security number, H. date and place of birth, educational background, employment history, personal foreign travel, other information about immediate family as well as business and personal acquaintances and other information used to conduct and adjudicate background investigations. (See documentation attached);

3. Current military member (US Army Officer) See DD-214;

4. Work at fort Belvoir (targeted by: ISIS and other radicalized groups);

5. DOD Secret clearance ;

6. DOJ security clearance (pending adjudication);

7. DOD credentials always on person (PIV/Access card);

8. DOJ credentials always on person (ATF PIV/Access card);

9. Recent attacks on Law-Enforcement Officers and Military members from radicalized groups;

10. lawfully protect family and self outside of my home and while traversing the state of Maryland;

11. Credit cards exceeding $20,000 USD;

 

[HeatSeeker]

You slipped through the crack somehow. The training is required for each renewal.

Not according to the MSP site and what I copy and pasted from it in post #15

 

[redeemed.man]

No, that is a one time thing only. I did include a copy of my certificate in my renewal packet from when I originally did the training though, just to be safe. I try to send in as detailed and thorough application as I can just to try and avoid any issues. When I had my original permit interview the Trooper told me there is no such thing as too much detail in your app. Just make sure to give the proper details.

Am I understanding you correctly? You did not need any training to renew? One time thing only? Please explain.

 

[redeemed.man]

Not according to the MSP site and what I copy and pasted from it in post #15

Interesting

Am I understanding you correctly? You did not need any training to renew? One time thing only? Please explain.

Sorry just catching up

 

[dblas]

Not according to the MSP site and what I copy and pasted from it in post #15

Info on the MSP website will NOT hold up in a court of law. See the bolded parts below.

Here is the actual requirement per Maryland Annotated Code, Public Safety Article:

§ 5-306. Qualifications for permit


(a) In general. -- Subject to subsection (c) of this section, the Secretary shall issue a permit within a reasonable time to a person who the Secretary finds:

(1) is an adult;

(2) (i) has not been convicted of a felony or of a misdemeanor for which a sentence of imprisonment for more than 1 year has been imposed; or

(ii) if convicted of a crime described in item (i) of this item, has been pardoned or has been granted relief under 18 U.S.C. § 925(c);

(3) has not been convicted of a crime involving the possession, use, or distribution of a controlled dangerous substance;

(4) is not presently an alcoholic, addict, or habitual user of a controlled dangerous substance unless the habitual use of the controlled dangerous substance is under legitimate medical direction;

(5) except as provided in subsection (b) of this section, has successfully completed prior to application and each renewal, a firearms training course approved by the Secretary that includes:

(i) 1. for an initial application, a minimum of 16 hours of instruction by a qualified handgun instructor; or

2. for a renewal application, 8 hours of instruction by a qualified handgun instructor;

(ii) classroom instruction on:

1. State firearm law;

2. home firearm safety; and

3. handgun mechanisms and operation; and

(iii) a firearms qualification component that demonstrates the applicant's proficiency and use of the firearm; and

(6) based on an investigation:

(i) has not exhibited a propensity for violence or instability that may reasonably render the person's possession of a handgun a danger to the person or to another; and

(ii) has good and substantial reason to wear, carry, or transport a handgun, such as a finding that the permit is necessary as a reasonable precaution against apprehended danger.

(b) Exemptions from training course. -- An applicant for a permit is not required to complete a certified firearms training course under subsection (a) of this section if the applicant:

(1) is a law enforcement officer or a person who is retired in good standing from service with a law enforcement agency of the United States, the State, or any local law enforcement agency in the State;

(2) is a member, retired member, or honorably discharged member of the armed forces of the United States or the National Guard;

(3) is a qualified handgun instructor; or

(4) has completed a firearms training course approved by the Secretary.

(c) Applicant under age of 30 years. -- An applicant under the age of 30 years is qualified only if the Secretary finds that the applicant has not been:

(1) committed to a detention, training, or correctional institution for juveniles for longer than 1 year after an adjudication of delinquency by a juvenile court; or

(2) adjudicated delinquent by a juvenile court for:

(i) an act that would be a crime of violence if committed by an adult;

(ii) an act that would be a felony in this State if committed by an adult; or

(iii) an act that would be a misdemeanor in this State that carries a statutory penalty of more than 2 years if committed by an adult.

(d) Issuance of handgun qualification license without additional application or fee. -- The Secretary may issue a handgun qualification license, without an additional application or fee, to a person who:

(1) meets the requirements for issuance of a permit under this section; and

(2) does not have a handgun qualification license issued under § 5-117.1 of this title.

HISTORY: An. Code 1957, art. 27, § 36E(a); 2003, ch. 5, § 2; 2013, ch. 427.

 

[HeatSeeker]

Info on the MSP website will NOT hold up in a court of law. See the bolded parts below.

Here is the actual requirement per Maryland Annotated Code, Public Safety Article:

§ 5-306. Qualifications for permit


(a) In general. -- Subject to subsection (c) of this section, the Secretary shall issue a permit within a reasonable time to a person who the Secretary finds:

(1) is an adult;

(2) (i) has not been convicted of a felony or of a misdemeanor for which a sentence of imprisonment for more than 1 year has been imposed; or

(ii) if convicted of a crime described in item (i) of this item, has been pardoned or has been granted relief under 18 U.S.C. § 925(c);

(3) has not been convicted of a crime involving the possession, use, or distribution of a controlled dangerous substance;

(4) is not presently an alcoholic, addict, or habitual user of a controlled dangerous substance unless the habitual use of the controlled dangerous substance is under legitimate medical direction;

(5) except as provided in subsection (b) of this section, has successfully completed prior to application and each renewal, a firearms training course approved by the Secretary that includes:

(i) 1. for an initial application, a minimum of 16 hours of instruction by a qualified handgun instructor; or

2. for a renewal application, 8 hours of instruction by a qualified handgun instructor;

(ii) classroom instruction on:

1. State firearm law;

2. home firearm safety; and

3. handgun mechanisms and operation; and

(iii) a firearms qualification component that demonstrates the applicant's proficiency and use of the firearm; and

(6) based on an investigation:

(i) has not exhibited a propensity for violence or instability that may reasonably render the person's possession of a handgun a danger to the person or to another; and

(ii) has good and substantial reason to wear, carry, or transport a handgun, such as a finding that the permit is necessary as a reasonable precaution against apprehended danger.

(b) Exemptions from training course. -- An applicant for a permit is not required to complete a certified firearms training course under subsection (a) of this section if the applicant:

(1) is a law enforcement officer or a person who is retired in good standing from service with a law enforcement agency of the United States, the State, or any local law enforcement agency in the State;

(2) is a member, retired member, or honorably discharged member of the armed forces of the United States or the National Guard;

(3) is a qualified handgun instructor; or

(4) has completed a firearms training course approved by the Secretary.

(c) Applicant under age of 30 years. -- An applicant under the age of 30 years is qualified only if the Secretary finds that the applicant has not been:

(1) committed to a detention, training, or correctional institution for juveniles for longer than 1 year after an adjudication of delinquency by a juvenile court; or

(2) adjudicated delinquent by a juvenile court for:

(i) an act that would be a crime of violence if committed by an adult;

(ii) an act that would be a felony in this State if committed by an adult; or

(iii) an act that would be a misdemeanor in this State that carries a statutory penalty of more than 2 years if committed by an adult.

(d) Issuance of handgun qualification license without additional application or fee. -- The Secretary may issue a handgun qualification license, without an additional application or fee, to a person who:

(1) meets the requirements for issuance of a permit under this section; and

(2) does not have a handgun qualification license issued under § 5-117.1 of this title.

HISTORY: An. Code 1957, art. 27, § 36E(a); 2003, ch. 5, § 2; 2013, ch. 427.[/Q



Possibly but that's not what it says on the website where we must go to apply and is the organization that approves permits. What are we supposed to do other than what they say to do?

 

[HeatSeeker]

InterestingSorry just catching up

Yes, I did have 8 hours of training for renewal, the first time.

 

[HeatSeeker]

Info on the MSP website will NOT hold up in a court of law. See the bolded parts below.

Here is the actual requirement per Maryland Annotated Code, Public Safety Article:

§ 5-306. Qualifications for permit


(a) In general. -- Subject to subsection (c) of this section, the Secretary shall issue a permit within a reasonable time to a person who the Secretary finds:

(1) is an adult;

(2) (i) has not been convicted of a felony or of a misdemeanor for which a sentence of imprisonment for more than 1 year has been imposed; or

(ii) if convicted of a crime described in item (i) of this item, has been pardoned or has been granted relief under 18 U.S.C. § 925(c);

(3) has not been convicted of a crime involving the possession, use, or distribution of a controlled dangerous substance;

(4) is not presently an alcoholic, addict, or habitual user of a controlled dangerous substance unless the habitual use of the controlled dangerous substance is under legitimate medical direction;

(5) except as provided in subsection (b) of this section, has successfully completed prior to application and each renewal, a firearms training course approved by the Secretary that includes:

(i) 1. for an initial application, a minimum of 16 hours of instruction by a qualified handgun instructor; or

2. for a renewal application, 8 hours of instruction by a qualified handgun instructor;

(ii) classroom instruction on:

1. State firearm law;

2. home firearm safety; and

3. handgun mechanisms and operation; and

(iii) a firearms qualification component that demonstrates the applicant's proficiency and use of the firearm; and

(6) based on an investigation:

(i) has not exhibited a propensity for violence or instability that may reasonably render the person's possession of a handgun a danger to the person or to another; and

(ii) has good and substantial reason to wear, carry, or transport a handgun, such as a finding that the permit is necessary as a reasonable precaution against apprehended danger.

(b) Exemptions from training course. -- An applicant for a permit is not required to complete a certified firearms training course under subsection (a) of this section if the applicant:

(1) is a law enforcement officer or a person who is retired in good standing from service with a law enforcement agency of the United States, the State, or any local law enforcement agency in the State;

(2) is a member, retired member, or honorably discharged member of the armed forces of the United States or the National Guard;

(3) is a qualified handgun instructor; or

(4) has completed a firearms training course approved by the Secretary.

(c) Applicant under age of 30 years. -- An applicant under the age of 30 years is qualified only if the Secretary finds that the applicant has not been:

(1) committed to a detention, training, or correctional institution for juveniles for longer than 1 year after an adjudication of delinquency by a juvenile court; or

(2) adjudicated delinquent by a juvenile court for:

(i) an act that would be a crime of violence if committed by an adult;

(ii) an act that would be a felony in this State if committed by an adult; or

(iii) an act that would be a misdemeanor in this State that carries a statutory penalty of more than 2 years if committed by an adult.

(d) Issuance of handgun qualification license without additional application or fee. -- The Secretary may issue a handgun qualification license, without an additional application or fee, to a person who:

(1) meets the requirements for issuance of a permit under this section; and

(2) does not have a handgun qualification license issued under § 5-117.1 of this title.

HISTORY: An. Code 1957, art. 27, § 36E(a); 2003, ch. 5, § 2; 2013, ch. 427.

See my bolded parts above. Kind of contradictory, huh ?

 

[dblas]

Info on the MSP website will NOT hold up in a court of law. See the bolded parts below.

Here is the actual requirement per Maryland Annotated Code, Public Safety Article:

§ 5-306. Qualifications for permit


(a) In general. -- Subject to subsection (c) of this section, the Secretary shall issue a permit within a reasonable time to a person who the Secretary finds:

(1) is an adult;

(2) (i) has not been convicted of a felony or of a misdemeanor for which a sentence of imprisonment for more than 1 year has been imposed; or

(ii) if convicted of a crime described in item (i) of this item, has been pardoned or has been granted relief under 18 U.S.C. § 925(c);

(3) has not been convicted of a crime involving the possession, use, or distribution of a controlled dangerous substance;

(4) is not presently an alcoholic, addict, or habitual user of a controlled dangerous substance unless the habitual use of the controlled dangerous substance is under legitimate medical direction;

(5) except as provided in subsection (b) of this section, has successfully completed prior to application and each renewal, a firearms training course approved by the Secretary that includes:

(i) 1. for an initial application, a minimum of 16 hours of instruction by a qualified handgun instructor; or

2. for a renewal application, 8 hours of instruction by a qualified handgun instructor;

(ii) classroom instruction on:

1. State firearm law;

2. home firearm safety; and

3. handgun mechanisms and operation; and

(iii) a firearms qualification component that demonstrates the applicant's proficiency and use of the firearm; and

(6) based on an investigation:

(i) has not exhibited a propensity for violence or instability that may reasonably render the person's possession of a handgun a danger to the person or to another; and

(ii) has good and substantial reason to wear, carry, or transport a handgun, such as a finding that the permit is necessary as a reasonable precaution against apprehended danger.

(b) Exemptions from training course. -- An applicant for a permit is not required to complete a certified firearms training course under subsection (a) of this section if the applicant:

(1) is a law enforcement officer or a person who is retired in good standing from service with a law enforcement agency of the United States, the State, or any local law enforcement agency in the State;

(2) is a member, retired member, or honorably discharged member of the armed forces of the United States or the National Guard;

(3) is a qualified handgun instructor; or

(4) has completed a firearms training course approved by the Secretary.

(c) Applicant under age of 30 years. -- An applicant under the age of 30 years is qualified only if the Secretary finds that the applicant has not been:

(1) committed to a detention, training, or correctional institution for juveniles for longer than 1 year after an adjudication of delinquency by a juvenile court; or

(2) adjudicated delinquent by a juvenile court for:

(i) an act that would be a crime of violence if committed by an adult;

(ii) an act that would be a felony in this State if committed by an adult; or

(iii) an act that would be a misdemeanor in this State that carries a statutory penalty of more than 2 years if committed by an adult.

(d) Issuance of handgun qualification license without additional application or fee. -- The Secretary may issue a handgun qualification license, without an additional application or fee, to a person who:

(1) meets the requirements for issuance of a permit under this section; and

(2) does not have a handgun qualification license issued under § 5-117.1 of this title.

HISTORY: An. Code 1957, art. 27, § 36E(a); 2003, ch. 5, § 2; 2013, ch. 427.

Possibly but that's not what it says on the website where we must go to apply and is the organization that approves permits. What are we supposed to do other than what they say to do?

There is no "Possibly" about the actual state law, that you, or I or anyone else would be charged with. We won't be charged with what it says on the MSP website, we will be charged with the actual law, as quoted ver batum, above.

 

[dblas]

See my bolded parts above. Kind of contradictory, huh ?

No, they aren't contradictory, because the Secretary hasn't approved any additional W&C training.

 

[Mark75H]

No, they aren't contradictory, because the Secretary hasn't approved any additional W&C training.

That phrase is not in COMAR; the phrase "approved by the Secretary." is, without specification. There is no "for W&C permit"

 

[HeatSeeker]

No, they aren't contradictory, because the Secretary hasn't approved any additional W&C training.

We obviously are interpreting this differently. It plainly says "an applicant for a permit is not required to complete a certified firearms training course under subsection (a) of this section if the applicant has completed a firearms training course approved by the Secretary."

I did, on the first renewal.



.......and yes it does totally contradict itself, even for an initial permit.

 

[redeemed.man]

Yes, I did have 8 hours of training for renewal, the first time.

I got my first permit long ago before the training requirement and renewed several times without training. This most recent renewal I did submit a training certificate.

 

[dblas]

We obviously are interpreting this differently. It plainly says "an applicant for a permit is not required to complete a certified firearms training course under subsection (a) of this section if the applicant has completed a firearms training course approved by the Secretary."

I did, on the first renewal.



.......and yes it does totally contradict itself, even for an initial permit.

No, you did not complete a firearms training course approved by the Secretary. You completed a firearms training course, specified by Maryland State Law. And the law MANDATES a training requirement before each application and before EACH renewal.

 

[GTOGUNNER]

B. 4. Says he did complete the course. And it is approved by the Secretary. The law is poorly written. Let's not have them fix it.


Sent from the 3rd Rock

 

[HeatSeeker]

No, you did not complete a firearms training course approved by the Secretary. You completed a firearms training course, specified by Maryland State Law. And the law MANDATES a training requirement before each application and before EACH renewal.

I completed an 8 hour training course, given by a certified trainer, that was required and approved and sufficed for me to receive my renewal permit. I submitted that certificate and received a renewed permit. On subsequent renewal I abided by what is clearly stated that if you have completed a certified training course you are exempt and I received another renewal.