Steel Core Ammo Illegal?

[boomboom929]

I was shooting at IWLA and a fellow shooter there shot my gun and commented on my green tip PMC 5.56 and was puzzled that I was shooting it. He commented he thought it was illegal in the State Of Md. I was under the impression that steel core wasn't welcomed at indoor ranges but legal in the state.

Any truth?

 

[lx1x]

its legal.. but not legal to shoot at some ranges like you mentioned.

 

[...]

I was shooting at IWLA and a fellow shooter there shot my gun and commented on my green tip PMC 5.56 and was puzzled that I was shooting it. He commented he thought it was illegal in the State Of Md. I was under the impression that steel core wasn't welcomed at indoor ranges but legal in the state.

Any truth?

.223 is high velocity, even with soft Pb the bullets still have a tendency to deflect and travel far, with steel core, this travel is longer since they don't really transfer their energy into targets. So that is the safety issue. You do not want to shoot steel core at indoor ranges or any high velocity rifle round unless you have a very expensive back stop. Look up videos of .223 tracers at night hitting a bouncing of stuff, it is a big problem and with steel core in some cases, the bullet could retain 80% of in energy and simply be deflected instead of stopped at its intended target.

Oh and some liberal pussies may think it is armor piercing or something like that, teflon coated steel core scares them. There is some stupid ATF rule were they can declare ammo "armor piercing" and make it illegal, but soon all rifle ammo and then any bullet that can go through a piece of paper will be considered armor piercing.

 

[mikec]

SS109/M855 ball ammo is not classified as AP ammo by the Feds.

Certain outdoor ranges also have issues with steel core ammo, but not because of any legality.

 

[boomboom929]

Okay,

So it's NOT illegal, just ill-advised

 

[mikec]

So it's NOT illegal, just ill-advised

The SS109 round was designed by FN so that the SAW they were developing for the US would have a certain level of penetration at 600m. The old standard M193 ball wouldn't do that. Rather than have two rounds, one for the M16 and one for the SAW, the US went with the new ammo for everything.

I have some SS109/M855 ammo, but most of the ammo I have meets the older 55gr M193 specs. The M193 tends to do better against humans. The 62gr SS109 should go through a car door a little easier.

Buy the cheapest quality ammo.

 

[jawn]

Buy the cheapest, quality ammo.

Fixed.

 

[...]

Okay,

So it's NOT illegal, just ill-advised

you live in moco? I think everything will be illegal in moco soon, everything. So you never know.

 

[alucard0822]

Only AP handgun ammo is flat out restricted for posession, rifle ammo is fine, even if it was real deal black tip AP, however there is an AP import and manufacture ban without some special FFL, and they are hard to find. Of course what constitutes "handgun" ammo is subject to .gov's BS, so some 7.62x39 steel core is considered AP handgun ammo when it really isn't, mostly just Clinton era backdoor ban BS although 5.56 is specifically exempt from the hanging AP ban. In the case of M855 it is enhanced penetration ball ammo, not AP, it uses a mild steel penetrator with lead behind it to increase penetration slightly, increase BC slightly(less dense steel makes a longer bullet for the same weight), and steel is cheaper than lead. Most "steel core" uses a similar soft steel as a substitute for lead, doesn't penetrate much better, cost savings is the main reason. Steel jacketed ammo serves the same purpose, either a country doesn't have a lot of copper for jackets, or just wants to save money. Steel core or steel jacketed ammo can tear up traps at indoor ranges, which is true, but at outdoor ranges it is thought to ricochet, or spark if it hits a rock, so there is a fear of fire or ricochets, although 99% of the time that is over hyped, and nowhere near the issue some ROs think it is. Actual AP ammo usually has a pointed tungsten or hardened steel core, not soft and cheap mild steel. Most handgun AP is pointed solid bronze or a smaller hardened steel projectile encased in a standard lead and copper FMJ , or even sub caliber sabots. M855 is decent stuff, and perfectly legal, may be aggaint a ranges policy inspired by valid or perhaps unfounded fear, but it is legal none-the-less.

 

[mikec]

I thought the rather rare 5.56 M995 AP round was indeed illegal to possess?

 

[Lykaios]

I thought the rather rare 5.56 M995 AP round was indeed illegal to possess?

I thought so too, although I could've sworn I have seen some for sale before - I can't remember where. Random web-surfing session.

And I thought the only problems most ranges have with the 855 is that simply it will tear up backstops and steel targets if any are used....

 

[mikec]

I thought so too, although I could've sworn I have seen some for sale before - I can't remember where. Random web-surfing session.

And I thought the only problems most ranges have with the 855 is that simply it will tear up backstops and steel targets if any are used....

There was at least one online shop that sold SS109 ammo with a black tip. It was not true AP, just a cheap way to get $$ from ignorant buyers.

 

[...]

just make sure there is no depleted uranium, its a very long shot, but you should be good. Steel core is good for the environment too, thanks for being so green and caring.

 

[Lykaios]

There was at least one online shop that sold SS109 ammo with a black tip. It was not true AP, just a cheap way to get $$ from ignorant buyers.

Man, that's shady...up until recently I would have one of the ignorant. Do you remember the site by any chance??

I will be sure to NEVER buy from them.

 

[...]

Man, that's shady...up until recently I would have one of the ignorant. Do you remember the site by any chance??

I will be sure to NEVER buy from them.

you can buy something similar here
http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=APMC223SS109

PMC X-TAC .223 62grn SS109 20rd Box

it is on AIM and these guys are pretty good about keeping up with all the state by state bs laws.

 

[cpc1027]

USA ammo has it listed as AP...not sure if it is to cover their bases against the misinformed or if they are trying to take advantage of people. I've never had a problem with them though.

http://www.usaammo.com/556x45mm-NATO-62-gr-SS109-AP-New-P89.aspx

 

[Lykaios]

USA ammo has it listed as AP...not sure if it is to cover their bases against the misinformed or if they are trying to take advantage of people. I've never had a problem with them though.

http://www.usaammo.com/556x45mm-NATO-62-gr-SS109-AP-New-P89.aspx

See, that's not so bad - they are actual GREEN tips. Not like the situation that mikec was talking about.

Technically they are armor piercing, right?? I have seen the term LIGHT armor piercing used. I suppose that is the best way to describe them (other than not using the term "armor piercing" at all because of legal BS).

 

[mikec]

Technically they are armor piercing, right??

Under whose definition? ATF doesn't call them AP, but they may defeat light military armor, not body armor. It really is stupid and confusing.

Man, that's shady...up until recently I would have one of the ignorant. Do you remember the site by any chance??

I will be sure to NEVER buy from them.

It was a major online dealer who was selling some European ammo. The ammo maker was NOT a common brand you will run into. I have not seen the ammo in several years.

The online shop wasn't trying to hide anything, it was the ammo maker that had things confused.

See, that's not so bad - they are actual GREEN tips

Green painted tips aren't required. There was some British SS109 that was imported a few years back and that had naked bullet tips. IF what I have read is correct, the only ammo makers that need to use green paint on the tips are the makers in the US and Israel because they issued both M193 and SS109 ammo to their troops. British or German military ammo doesn't need green tips.

 

[cpc1027]

The ammo in that link is only painted green in the picture. If you read the fine print, it says "Actual product may or maynot have green identification colored paint on tips. " The ammo that they sent me did not have green tips.

 

[QuebecoisWolf]

Green painted tips aren't required. There was some British SS109 that was imported a few years back and that had naked bullet tips. IF what I have read is correct, the only ammo makers that need to use green paint on the tips are the makers in the US and Israel because they issued both M193 and SS109 ammo to their troops. British or German military ammo doesn't need green tips.

I have some Portuguese surplus 5.56 with unpainted tips. Both the box and the headstamps identify it as SS109. I wonder if it got accidentally tossed in with all of the 1970s M193 shipped over here.

Also, there's absolutely no law against owning M855 in MD, just like there's no law against having "High-capacity" magazines. However, since ranges are often privately owned businesses, it is well within their rights to ban these items even when their concerns are nothing more than ignorance.