Star B in 9mm

[somd_mustangs]

I've found all mine on GunBroker. Personally, I look for non-import marked guns, and prefer the earlier "straight-handle" style without the bulge at the base of the grip. Guns in the 200,000 range should be looked at for potential German contract. Many have fake Waffenamts so don't get sucked in by the hype. No legit Bulgarian contract gun ever had a Waffenamt. Post-war German Police are cool, have LPN (or LBPN?) on the grip strap, small parts marked with S/N and 2 matched mags, matched holster for a complete rig. Many are still in superb shape. A complete all-matched police rig will run you $600-$800 though. And yes, they are super-fun to shoot!

 

[somd_mustangs]

just a quick primer on the Waffenamt should you be so lucky to find a genuine one - they are at least 3-4 times what a regular Star B would bring so be careful. The German contract S/N's are well-documented as well, and early guns won't have the Waffenamt.

 

[Machodoc]

There is/was recently a fake-stamped Bulgarian on GB. They guy selling it posted it with an acknowledgement in words to the effect that "some people believe it might be" a fake, but he was still clearly hoping to leave the door open for the naive to believe that it might be an amazing bargain--and he had it priced 'way high for a regular Star B (but under an authentic Waffenampt marked gun). Pretty sleazy!

 

[Melnic]

As I mentioned before, spare mags are about $40.
My dads mag lips are a bit weak and flexed. Mine are stronger, but today I noticed I get more jams if I load 8 vs. the normal 5 I typically load at a time. Reading up on interweb posts about mags and jamming. I still like this gun, but so far between mine and my dads, my Walther P1 is looking like a stable workhorse.

 

[reverendbeer]

As I mentioned before, spare mags are about $40.
My dads mag lips are a bit weak and flexed. Mine are stronger...

Kegels?

 

[Melnic]

Magazine lips!
not, oh, well, nevermind.

Found this:
http://kegisland.com/star-b-debugging-project.html

 

[reverendbeer]

Magazine lips!
not, oh, well, nevermind.

Found this:
http://kegisland.com/star-b-debugging-project.html

I spit out a bit of beer reading the domain name.

 

[endsjustifymeans]

What kind of price is fair for these? 350-400?

 

[reverendbeer]

What kind of price is fair for these? 350-400?

Absolutely mint, without "special" marks (WWII, etc)....I'd say $450ish

Medium-ish finish, no special marks....$250-350 depending on just how medium it's mediumocity is.

Special marks ('nampts, Bulgarianz, etc.)...it just depends on who wants it more. I've seen various prices between $500 to infinity.

ANY collectors item is impossible to price. You find something like erwos's Beretta 1951 and get it for what he did, you'll have a collector story that other people will reference for the rest of time. Other people see it? People'll be talking about the high-three to four figure price for the rest of time.

 

[somd_mustangs]

Most of the Bulgarian contract (early to mid-WWII) imports have been refinished which drops them into the $250-$350 range IMHO - but sellers tend to put a premium on them. If it has a blued or purple-looking extractor, it's refinished (assuming the blurry markings aren't a giveaway). Great for a range gun, not so great for a collectible, occasional shooter.

 

[jkeiler]

I purchased a Star B from Robertsons based largely on the discussion in this thread. They are advertised as former Israeli municipal Jerusalem police. The first pistol I ordered was a 1951 "V" marked for the year, with an LPN proof indicating ex-German state police (Landespolizei Niedersachsen--state police Lower Saxony.) That pistol arrived promptly but when I function checked it the sear bar broke. Robersons took it back and I selected a 1952 "X" marked pistol. It also had the German LPN proof.

The second pistol is great, pictures attached. Looks good and it functioned flawlessly through 50 rounds. The first 32 (4 mags) are on the target photo. The flyers are early rounds, then I shot high, and finally brought it in. The only reason all 32 aren't in the bulls-eye is the shooter.

Only remaining question is the Israeli provenance. As Machodoc told me, there is great reason for skepticism--no markings on pistol to indicate any Israeli connection. I asked Robertsons about it (neither pistol had an Israeli marking) and they said that the Israeli provenance is based on what the importer told them. The only thing supporting an Israeli connection is Robertsons' own advertised story, supposedly from the importer, but that story is fairly complex and attributes the pistols to the Jerusalem municipal police. Why go through the trouble for such a complex back story, unless it was true? Does the Israeli connection add that much to sales value? Maybe it does, but I'm inclined to believe, slightly, that it is true. Why would municipal police put an Israeli Magan David mark on the pistol anyway? Though maybe they would put their own property mark, which is not present either.

Machodoc advises to buy the gun and not the story--which is good advice. In this case, either is a good bet. The gun is great, and the story--Spanish gun, German police to Jerusalem police is good too. Even without the story, getting a pistol like this, a great shooter, that looks good, got some good history either way, at a reasonable price, delivered to your door--what more could a novice collector ask for?

 

[rdc]

I've been wanting one of these and was curious about the ones robertsons had. Thanks for the update

 

[Machodoc]

"Why go through the trouble for such a complex back story, unless it was true? Does the Israeli connection add that much to sales value? Maybe it does, but I'm inclined to believe, slightly, that it is true. Why would municipal police put an Israeli Magan David mark on the pistol anyway? Though maybe they would put their own property mark, which is not present either."

Because it makes a good story. It sounded good to them, so they passed it on as fact ... but ... doesn't this look better?

 

[jkeiler]

"Why go through the trouble for such a complex back story, unless it was true? Does the Israeli connection add that much to sales value? Maybe it does, but I'm inclined to believe, slightly, that it is true. Why would municipal police put an Israeli Magan David mark on the pistol anyway? Though maybe they would put their own property mark, which is not present either."

Because it makes a good story. It sounded good to them, so they passed it on as fact ... but ... doesn't this look better?

No question that looks better. I'm not saying that for purposes of selling this to another collector, or even making the case, that my unmarked pistol is any sort of evidence at all of Israeli use. All I am saying is that I think it is more likely than not true (51-49%) and, of course, that is purely a guess on my part.

Do you know what the lettering means? It almost looks like the word Israel in Hebrew but is missing the second letter and the last letter isn't a lamed (L.) Doubt they would put that on there anyway.

 

[Machodoc]

No question that looks better. I'm not saying that for purposes of selling this to another collector, or even making the case, that my unmarked pistol is any sort of evidence at all of Israeli use. All I am saying is that I think it is more likely than not true (51-49%) and, of course, that is purely a guess on my part.

I don't think that they are making up the story, but neither do I think they've made any attempt to investigate its authenticity. You'll find a lot of claims about the back story on various firearms that are for sale--often elaborate ones. Some may be true, and some are pure BS. In the absence of evidence, it's just a story. Buy the gun for what it is.

Do you know what the lettering means? It almost looks like the word Israel in Hebrew but is missing the second letter and the last letter isn't a lamed (L.) Doubt they would put that on there anyway.

No, JK, I don't. I haven't researched that one. I just used the photo to show you that there are some that are marked.

Out of the same batch of "Israeli" Spanish guns that Robertson's has been selling for years, they've had ones that were Spanish marked, were Soviet-rebuilt, were Union of South Africa marked, were LPN marked, and had various marks from other countries. That doesn't mean they were not Israeli-owned, at some point ... but it doesn't mean that they were, either. When buying guns, horses, and used cars, it's safer to be skeptical of the salesman's story and just look at the goods.

You got a really nice gun, in the end, and you know where it was during at least two periods of its history.

 

[jkeiler]

The fact that they have been selling the Star Bs willy-nilly for years as Israeli, no matter where they seem to have come from, certainly does not help my case, such as it is. I'm very happy with the gun either way--thanks again for the added info.

 

[Melnic]

"they said that the Israeli provenance is based on what the importer told them."
Ok, I have one of the Robertson TP ones too. Like yours, there's the Israeli claim as well. Yours says PW Arms on the side, and Mine and My Dads say Sarco under the front of Frame.

OK. 2 different importers are saying the same thing? Me thinks cut and paste.
I recall viewing on the History Channel how early on Israel was importing firearms from whomever and where ever they could. One guy recalled being in charge of ammo and having to deal with such a large number of calibers and different arms to go different places. That may mesh with the story but does not prove anything without stampings.

 

[Machodoc]

Ok, I have one of the Robertson TP ones too. Like yours, there's the Israeli claim as well. Yours says PW Arms on the side, and Mine and My Dads say Sarco under the front of Frame.

One index finger is on the tip of my nose, and the other is pointing at Melnic.

 

[Indiana Jones]

That's the reason Gary Cooper was outfitted with a Luger instead of a 1911 in the movie Sergeant York.

Lets not forget: Hi Power instead of 1911...same reason

Sent from the Bantu Wind using Tapatalk.

 

[jkeiler]

"they said that the Israeli provenance is based on what the importer told them."
Ok, I have one of the Robertson TP ones too. Like yours, there's the Israeli claim as well. Yours says PW Arms on the side, and Mine and My Dads say Sarco under the front of Frame.

OK. 2 different importers are saying the same thing? Me thinks cut and paste.
I recall viewing on the History Channel how early on Israel was importing firearms from whomever and where ever they could. One guy recalled being in charge of ammo and having to deal with such a large number of calibers and different arms to go different places. That may mesh with the story but does not prove anything without stampings.

Here is the exact quote I got from Robertsons:

"These Stars along with some Berettas and Hi-Powers we had all come from the same importer who states they came from Israel." Emphasis mine.

So there obviously something fishy, since we got guns from different importers with the same story. I surrender, and concede that the Israel story is unlikely. Plus, although I've searched around the web fairly far and wide, I have not come up with any reference of Star Bs being used there. Machodoc just displayed one with an Israeli marking on it, but who knows what that means? I will try to find out, but probably they were received for official service, if at all, in small quantities. All the better for Machodoc though.