Squib load warning

[Blaster229]

I know many pistols, even the venerable hi point c9 will shoot through a barrel obstruction, but that is not a 100% guarantee. Forgive me for asking, but by "just shooting through" a barrel obstruction, aren't you doing the bad guys job for him, by potentially wounding or killing yourself with an "improvised" handheld pipe bomb. Isn't primary weapons malfunction the entire reason why they developed a whole class of firearms known as backup guns, like most small .22s, .25s, .32s, or very small .380s like the keltec.

A squib requires more than a tap, rack and bang. Someone in front of you slinging lead your way, do you have time to take the barrel out and rod it and get back in the fight? That would be a no. Do what you want. I'm pretty sure most, if not all, combat fighters will take the chance of the squib clearing (or not) and get a round off compared to fumbling with something that will take minutes to clear and getting shot holding an inop paperweight.

YMMV.

Sent from somewhere in the world.

 

[Pinecone]

You buddies can cover you

A BIG difference if you have extra people on your side.

And additional firearms.

 

[NickZac]

I know many pistols, even the venerable hi point c9 will shoot through a barrel obstruction, but that is not a 100% guarantee. Forgive me for asking, but by "just shooting through" a barrel obstruction, aren't you doing the bad guys job for him, by potentially wounding or killing yourself with an "improvised" handheld pipe bomb. Isn't primary weapons malfunction the entire reason why they developed a whole class of firearms known as backup guns, like most small .22s, .25s, .32s, or very small .380s like the keltec.

H&Ks are built for this to the point that they often do not even sustain any damage when this occurs. I have no doubt that a Sig, among others, would do the same. It is not by any means a pipe bomb. Firing a successive round simply clears the barrel of the lodged bullet.

On a range there is no reason to fire through. In a defensive situation, if you come to the point in which you need to fire a gun, chances are if you fail to hit your target, you are going to wind up dead. Time is of the essence.

One class I have been in instructed one to fire through this. You can practice clearing jams quickly enough in a defensive situation, but you can’t practice a field strip and using a brass rod to pound out the lodged bullet. And realistically, in a defensive situation, one may not even realize what has happened until the 'clearing' shot...possibly not at all. A back up may be great, but it is not always an option both due to practicality and time constraints.

 

[fidelity]

Damn, after reading this thread, why do I feel like I need to get an HK or higher end Sig.

*Not that my line of work puts me in more physical peril than running into a glass door and I otherwise might only ever run into a squib at the range (and would immediately notice if my shot felt funny and didn't hit paper).

Sent using Tapatalk

 

[04RWon]

Damn, after reading this thread, why do I feel like I need to get an HK or higher end Sig.

*Not that my line of work puts me in more physical peril than running into a glass door and I otherwise might only ever run into a squib at the range (and would immediately notice if my shot felt funny and didn't hit paper).

Sent using Tapatalk

Agreed! I feel the need to get more sig mags for my 229

An hk would be nice too...

 

[Traveler]

Looks like a bad idea with a Glock:

http://www.popguns.com/centerfire/basicclass/section2/storageandcare.htm

 

[Blaster229]

Well, I think we all agree that it is a bad idea altogether. Actually it isn't a bad idea since it shouldn't be a consideration AT ALL while at the range pleasure shooting.

How bad are the rounds coming at you in a self defense shooting situation is the question. Is your will to survive and fight wiling to chance 1. shooting the round out, 2. nothing exploding in your face and destroying the barrel or 3. losing a hand and face possibly by total destruction.
For me, I am going to go out on my terms and not some dirtbag terms. I would rather lose a hand or chance maim just before possibly/most likely losing my life.

The question is how bad someone wants to live. The pistol can be replaced but your life cannot.

 

[Traveler]

H&K P30 doesn't pass muster either:

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2011/12/david-jensen/gun-review-hk-p30/

 

[Torin]

I see both points. Question. Traveler, what would you have someone do who is being fired on and they encounter a squib load, and they have no backup?

 

[Traveler]

First, I would refer anyone with that question to a qualified tactical instructor.

Personally, I would try to get to a place where I can have the few seconds to look down the action for light / reflection to confirm the firearm is safe to fire. If it is obstructed, I am better off looking for a baseball bat, than hoping the criminal will die laughing at the results of firing through a squib with most firearms.

As people have said, we all have to make a personal decision about this. I am looking for more professional training on this. I do want more than just the DVDs I have watched on the subject.

 

[fidelity]

H&K P30 doesn't pass muster either:

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2011/12/david-jensen/gun-review-hk-p30/

I just read the piece and it indicated that one could shoot through an obstructed barrel with the P30 and in the case that the squib didn't clear, the gun wouldn't go hand grenade on you. Maybe I misunderstood.

Sent using Tapatalk

 

[Traveler]

I just read the piece and it indicated that one could shoot through an obstructed barrel with the P30 and in the case that the squib didn't clear, the gun wouldn't go hand grenade on you. Maybe I misunderstood.

Sent using Tapatalk

Nor did the gun work. It was rendered unusable do to barrel bulge. Doesn't seem like an effective self defense strategy to me.

From the article:

I personally witnessed a P30 brought back from the firing line with a severe problem. The slide was locked back, and would not move forward. The culprit was a bulged barrel due to a round being fired after a squib became lodged. The pistol was sent back for warranty work, the barrel was replaced, and the owner was quite happy that he still had his shooting hand.

 

[Blaster229]

Nor did the gun work. It was rendered unusable do to barrel bulge. Doesn't seem like an effective self defense strategy to me.

From the article:

I don't think you garner what people are saying here about shooting through. There is ZERO possibility of clearing a squib in the face of rounds coming your way. Unless you are in your house and have the possibility of grabbing another pistol or weapon.
Right now I am sitting in starbucks. If someone came in and started shooting and I respond with a squib pistol, I have no choice but to try to shoot it through. My only other choice is to just sit here in the corner and die. Or die running out. Either way there is no other alternative.

 

[fidelity]

Nor did the gun work. It was rendered unusable do to barrel bulge. Doesn't seem like an effective self defense strategy to me.

From the article:

The quote immediately above the anecdote you cite is ...

"It also means that not only does H&K cold hammer forge their pistol barrels, but they also design them so that even if completely blocked (say, with dirt, mud, blood or the bullet from one of your friend’s handloads) you can still fire a round without the gun going grenade on you."

Then the author gives a field example where a P30 user fired into a squib barrel and while the round didn't clear, the gun didn't blow up either. The overall point that is being made is that this gun may be able to clear a squib and if it fails, your hand will likely be intact, and you can proceed to plan B if receiving fire.

 

[Traveler]

The quote immediately above the anecdote you cite is ...

"It also means that not only does H&K cold hammer forge their pistol barrels, but they also design them so that even if completely blocked (say, with dirt, mud, blood or the bullet from one of your friend’s handloads) you can still fire a round without the gun going grenade on you."

Then the author gives a field example where a P30 user fired into a squib barrel and while the round didn't clear, the gun didn't blow up either. The overall point that is being made is that this gun may be able to clear a squib and if it fails, your hand will likely be intact, and you can proceed to plan B if receiving fire.

I see your point. Again, my personal decision is first, get more training. Second, spend a few seconds confirming I have a functional firearm, and if I don't, look for other options. Having a firearm specifically designed, and certified, to shoot through a squib could change that thought. I do not own such a firearm.

 

[fidelity]

I do not own such a firearm.

Yeah, neither do I, but now I want one, for the 1x10^-1000 chance that I would ever need this capability. Not entirely rational.

I remember that Blaster229 recently picked up a personal firearm of this sort of quality very recently (had posted a nice pic). I'm inferring that his line of work has significant potential for receiving fire, so would hope that his place of work also provides their employees with a robustly capable sidearm.

 

[Traveler]

Yeah, neither do I, but now I want one, for the 1x10^-1000 chance that I would ever need this capability. Not entirely rational.

I remember that Blaster229 recently picked up a personal firearm of this sort of quality very recently (had posted a nice pic). I'm inferring that his line of work has significant potential for receiving fire, so would hope that his place of work also provides their employees with a robustly capable sidearm.

Yeah, I must admit, since getting my C&R I add new pieces to my collection more frequently. I did check out my 45 and 9mm, they are not rated for firing through squibs. I did check pricing on the USP. Drool.

 

[ALBY]

H&Ks are built for this to the point that they often do not even sustain any damage when this occurs. I have no doubt that a Sig, among others, would do the same. It is not by any means a pipe bomb. Firing a successive round simply clears the barrel of the lodged bullet.

or, possibly, depending on the load, it will blow the barrel hood off thru the ejection port and fold shards of steel back around the slide like a bananna, bulge the barrel (with two bullets still inside), bend the slide, blow the mag catch out and send mag, follower, spring, rounds and hot gas down thru the frame.

How would i know this ?

 

[Braddbdl]

or, possibly, depending on the load, it will blow the barrel hood off thru the ejection port and fold shards of steel back around the slide like a bananna, bulge the barrel (with two bullets still inside), bend the slide, blow the mag catch out and send mag, follower, spring, rounds and hot gas down thru the frame.

How would i know this ?

Hypothetically... Did you come out of this unscathed?

 

[Pinecone]

I can't remember which magazine it was, but a recent issue had two barrels that had been cut down the middle to show what had occurred.

One was a revolver wit 7 bullets lodged in the barrel. So the person fired the cylinderful and RELOADED.

The other was a rifle barrel (AR IIRC) that had an unknown number of rounds, but it was packed full.