Spanish mauser

[silentsnake]

i will post some pics as soon as possible, but i finally got my Spanish Mauser back after about 20 years...i have been looking it over and i noticed what appears to be stress cracks between the barrel and the receiver...is this just bad finish milling? i have not seen it in so long i cant remember if it was like that the last time i fired it...

 

[j8064]

Glad you have it "back". Where's it been for 20 years?
Who knows what it's been through in that amount of time. Check it out well.

Pics?...they're a "must" on this thread!

 

[Oldcarjunkie]

Glad you have it "back". Where's it been for 20 years?
Who knows what it's been through in that amonut of time. Check it out well.

Pics?...they're a "must" on this thread!

+1
where has it been for 20 years? Ive sold stuff only to buy it back years later but Im curious to hear this one.. and see pics.

 

[Threeband]

Rubbing alcohol can reveal invisable cracks. It evaporates immediately from the steel, but soaks in to hairline cracks making them stand out.

If you're not sure about your long-lost Prodigal Mauser, you should take it to a smith.





By the way, none of us will believe you have a mauser until we see some pictures.

 

[silentsnake]

well my brother had it stored in his gun locker for the last 20 years, and he got tired of storing it...so i had to get that and a bunch of my hunting gear from his house...he has not fired it since i left it there, i told him to sell it but then i changed my mind and really wanted to see if i could shoot the old thing again...

here are some pics of it now...

please bear with me cause they are sort of crappy...

and the area where the barrel meets the receiver, it might be less than precision milling...

i was thinking of getting a better barrel for it, the replacement magazines, a scope and a bipod...

here is the same pic with the arrows pointing at the shadows that if the pic was clearer would look like fractures, but it might just be from assembly way back when...the chamber looks fine

 

[cablegod]

Is your Spanish Mauser a 7mm? I have what I was told is a Spanish Mauser with a sportized thumb hole stock. It has next to no markings on it but does fire the 7mm Mauser round. It has the turned down bolt like yours.

 

[silentsnake]

i believe it was originally 7mm that was re-chambered for 7.62 nato, which it fires now...i took a look at the collar where the barrel meets the receiver, and it appears that it was indeed re-milled to compensate for too much head-spacing, since the collar is a fraction of an inch less than the original barrel would have been...that explains the rough edges where the two meet and i think it will be still OK to fire...that would mean there are also a couple more threads more than the original had in both the end of the barrel and the receiver...i have fired 150 grain 308 through it in the past as well as some surplus isreali nato 7.62, there is minimal pitting on the barrel in some places and a couple of spots on the receiver as well, but nothing more than cosmetic, it has been kept oiled and cleaned for many years, just not fired...

the markings are all Spanish and all the numbers on the parts match identically...there is also a small iron cross or spanish cross stamp on the reciever and the marking of "f 8"...i read somewhere that this indicates it was possibly an 8mm at one time, but i don't remember if that is the case...

 

[silentsnake]

i have been doing some much needed research on the origin of my Mauser, and one thing that i came up with is the serial number leads me to believe it is a Turkish Mauser for the most part, but it was dressed up to look like a Spanish Mauser...the serial number starts with an OT, which is probably a reference to Ottoman (Turk)

the barrel is a replacement and someone went out of their way to re-stamp it with a matching serial number to the rest of the parts...

the original serial number can be viewed by removing the upper assembly from the stock and looking underneath...it was machined to make sure the head space was correct for the caliber it was re-chambered for...7.62...

the original barrel serial starts with an "R" but i don't know the significance of it

some other key characteristics that lend credence to the Turkish origin are the measurements...

it is a large ring receiver, but the measurement between the trigger guard screws is that of a small ring...this is typical of a Turkish Mauser from what i have read and asked...

also wherever the receiver came from is all but obliterated, the original crest was milled off somehow and the only remaining mark left is a circle with a cross, which after a little bit of digging, i found was also the symbol stamped on the bottom of NATO ammo to designate 7.62 ammo as approved NATO rounds...this is the only real indicator that it is chambered for NATO 7.62...and i have fired several rounds of surplus Israeli 7.62 through it...

another interesting feature is the turned down bolt handle...it is turned down even more than the standard or wide arc handles...this leads me to the idea that it may have been done by a smith at some point...normally it would not look this...

the rear sight ears were most likely removed and replaced with the Spanish type, since hammer marks are visible on the underside and areas covered by the stock...no doubt it was bent around and re-soldered into place to complete the illusion of a Spanish Mauser...

since the value of it is in question, and i don't really want to ever restore it to a more historically accurate look, im probably going to finish sporterizing it by getting some work done on it and adding some of my own parts and accessories...

one of the more important steps is to replace the barrel with a military style barrel, i want to make sure it is as robust as possible...and i probably wont hurt to add a bit of length to the barrel...the one i am looking at has a 1:10 twist and goes for around $199...i may replace the stock as well, but i have yet to find a good one that will give it the look i am going for...the bolt handle is a toss up, since the configuration i want is to have it set up for interchangeable scout scope config, and a longer rifle scope...

to get the best of both worlds, i took a look at several options and i think i may have to go with the S&K weaver rear sight replacing mount...im also looking at doing some modification to the stock S&K mount so that it has a picatinny rail with a bit more length and lower profile than out of the box...

to mount the normal rifle scope, i came up with this idea...i found a quick release offset (or extended ring) system that will bring the rings back an additional 3 inches so the scope sits nicely over the receiver and just clears the bolt handle...and it secures very tightly onto the rail...but this system costs about $250 or so...but i think it is worth it to avoid tampering with the durability of the receiver...

to switch between configurations, i would simply release the levers, take the scope off and replace it with a quick release long eye relief scout setup to make it more suitable for a brush gun...

there are other things i want to do to give it the functionality im looking for, but eventually i want to just post some pics of the modifications...

til then i will be shopping and spending for the things i need in increments every week...

im also looking at an ATI stock (not the scout type, but one that would need some work to fit the re-barreled rifle) but if push came to shove, it might be possible to leave off the annoying scope mount that comes with the current ATI Mauser stock and get it glass bedded to fit better...the aluminum clamp may also offer an alternative method of fixing a shorter picatinny rail to the rifle, but that will also take some modification to lower the profile of the rail a bit...

i wish ATI still offered the stock minus the built in rail system...i much prefer a rail that is firmly attached to the barrel in some form or another, but want the versatility of the rail...plus all that extra nylon above the receiver on the new ATI offering kind of screws up the profile a bit too much...it looks ridiculous IMHO...

if i cant have the ATI stock worked on to the specs i need, then the one i have will be adorned with an SKS/Mosin slip over style buttpad...

im also tossing around the idea of some kind of muzzle brake on the end, but so far it is difficult to find a suitable clamp on brake, i may need to go with a threaded brake instead...

now i have heard of some using the k31 clamp on brake and getting it machined to fit the barrel, and adding a spacer to fill in the gap behind the front sight, but i wonder if eventually those get knocked off...plus, with the removal of the rear iron sight, the front sight is pretty much useless by itself, so a threaded brake sounds like a much better option...and with a new barrel that wont be a huge issue...

 

[Jaybeez]

Small ring mauser? Firing 308 in a 7.62nato small ring mauser is bad news from what i gather, it could very well be stress fractures, especially if its been in someone elses possession. I know the german kn98 steel can handle it, but i dont know about turkish or spanish steel.

I think spain made a FR8, a mauser action with a 7.62nato barrel, in a shortened stock with cetme type sights and bayonet lug. That may be the "f 8" mark. Who knows?

When rebarreling, its sometime necessary to relieve the shoulder of the receiver. Some people also do it to square the face of the action, either of these could also be the reason for rough machining.

Sounds like alot going on with it, be careful.

 

[Jaybeez]

http://www.surplusrifle.com/shooting2006/308vs762nato/index.asp

This article touches on the difference of 7.62 and 308 in a mauser, and some spanish type 93 and fr8 info too.

My amateur google fu makes me think is is one of the small ring spanish mausers re barreled into 7.62 nato, thats then been a little bubba'd.

"it is a large ring receiver, but the measurement between the trigger guard screws is that of a small ring"

I think its a small ring.

 

[silentsnake]

nope its a large ring, the measurement is exactly that of a larger ring link->"Across the face of the receiver will measure 1 3/8" ...and that is a noticeable difference... i thought it was small ring too until i got out the tape measure and saw for myself...

the distance between the trigger guard screws, and the serial number means its probably Turkish not Spanish...they used the large ring receiver with the shorter distance between trigger guard screws for some of their rifles...but now if it is a Yugo model, i would be really confused...

in the link it sort of generalizes what is a Turkish Mauser, but there were also some that had large ring receiver with a small ring barrel...i cant find the link to that article though...

it has handled .308 just fine in the past, but i tend to agree that if it is chambered for 7.62 NATO, i should stick to that round...

now i just have to find some surplus ammo on the cheap...

*EDIT*:

i remember firing it years ago with the .308 ammo, and we stopped firing .308 in it because the head spacing was checked for it...and it is definitely chambered specifically for 7.62 NATO...

plus it kicked more with .308, while 7.62 Israeli rounds were nice and smooth...

my brother had one similar and he even had a .308 casing get stuck in his...that is what made us stop firing .308 in them...

his was much more original than mine was, and had most original parts...he also had a hinged floor plate on the magazine...mine still has the one that pops all the way off...

 

[silentsnake]

I know the german kn98 steel can handle it, but i dont know about turkish or spanish steel.

I think spain made a FR8, a mauser action with a 7.62nato barrel, in a shortened stock with cetme type sights and bayonet lug. That may be the "f 8" mark. Who knows?

When re-barreling, its sometime necessary to relieve the shoulder of the receiver. Some people also do it to square the face of the action, either of these could also be the reason for rough machining.

Sounds like alot going on with it, be careful.

i agree careful is the word...the more i ask about it and the more i look at it, it is pretty plain to see that it is indeed a "bubbatized" Mauser...the only part of the rifle that bears the f 8 which was unsuccessfully scrubbed off for the most part, is the barrel (makes me think this was from a FR8) the only other distinctly Spanish part on this rifle is the rear bolt assembly, and the bluing on that does not match the rest of the bolt...it doesn't fit right either...

since most or all of the serials were sloppily re-stamped over the scrubbed ones, i am seriously leaning towards a cannibalized weapon that they (whoever they are) made the attempt of passing off as an honest to goodness "Spanish Mauser" with matching serials...

on closer discovery, i noticed how the rear of the receiver has been milled to accept a short action bolt, but in every other way it looks identical to an early German large ring Mauser, which is easily mistaken for a small ring...later large rings were much heavier around the front of the action...

other telltale clues are the stock itself...it never fit correctly out of the box, and it was glass bedded once i bought it, but you can still see the outline of the pieces they milled off...either that or the stock is part of the forgery...

matter of fact the more i look at it, the more i see that none of the bluing really matches on any of the parts...front sight, rear sight, floor plate, bolt, safety, rear bolt assy, trigger, all have different hues of bluing and wear...

for all intents and purposes this is a pretty funky Mauser, nothing on it can be called original...

out of sentimental value, i would still like to fire it, but i think a visit to the doctor might be in order before i put one more cartridge through the chamber...