So, you think that your legal in your state with Permit less Carry?

[Harrys]

Just be sure you know that there's a catch. A catch that could be problematic under the right circumstances.

FEDERAL law makes it illegal to possess a gun within 1000 feet of a school zone.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/922#q

It shall be unlawful for any individual knowingly to possess a firearm that has moved in or that otherwise affects interstate or foreign commerce at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is a school zone.

Federal law defines a school zone to be any area within 1000 feet of a school.

There's an exception in the law for those with qualifying state licenses to carry. The law does not apply...

...if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located or a political subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or political subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified under law to receive the license;

There's also an exception to possessing a firearm on private property within the school zone that isn't part of the school, so you can carry on your own property if you live near a school.

Otherwise, unless you plan to ensure that you never get within 1000 feet of a school, you can't legally carry without a qualifying state permit--in ANY state. To comply with the law if you don't have a qualifying state issued permit to carry, your gun needs to be unloaded and locked up any time the federal gun free school zone law applies.

Some food for thought.

 

[Allen65]

AFAIK that's an interpretation of the law that's not settled. "License" isn't the physical object of a permit, it's the legal authority granted by the State to do something. Sometimes, a state may require presence of a physical permit, like a liquor license in a store, in order to prove the legal license exists. But that's only if the law requires posting or possession of a physical object as proof of license.

By passing a law that declares every citizen, by default, can carry, that is a legal license to carry, whether or not a physical piece of paper saying so is issued. Maryland law requires the physical permit card be carried in order for the carry to be lawful, but that's written into the statute as a condition for the license to be valid, so if you don't have the card on you, you're not carrying under license at that time.

Has anyone in a CONCARRY state who has been lawfully, under state law, carrying in a school zone been Federally charged and convicted? Not that I'm aware of. All cases I've seen have involved other concurrent crimes that would have made the carry unlawful under state law, and therefore they weren't carrying under license.

 

[pitpawten]

By passing a law that declares every citizen , by default, can carry, that is a legal license to carry, whether or not a physical piece of paper saying so is issued

This is correct, by its definition "license" is not primarily a physical thing, but a permission that has been granted or authorized by someone in authority.

The license that we hold in our hand is just a physical representation of the license that was already granted by the legislature.

 

[Bob A]

Here's a locally interesting question: given the nature of the licensing question, and insofar as VA accepts all states' licenses, does this exempt a licensed carrier from the federal school zone extended boundary area, or would one need an actual VA license to be released from the federal rule?

 

[jc1240]

Here's a locally interesting question: given the nature of the licensing question, and insofar as VA accepts all states' licenses, does this exempt a licensed carrier from the federal school zone extended boundary area, or would one need an actual VA license to be released from the federal rule?

License/permit must be issued by the state in which the school is located.

 

[Allen65]

License/permit must be issued by the state in which the school is located.

But Bob A's question is still unanswered: Does a state's acceptance by statute of another jurisdiction's license, constitute license issued by that state? If not, where is the case law showing an instance where a person was carrying fully in compliance with state law and yet was charged and convicted under GFSZA? Anyone with a Lexis-Nexis account should be able to answer that in short order.

 

[Threeband]

Has anyone ever been prosecuted under this act?



By the way, the misuse of the Commerce Clause as an "elastic clause" to justify unlimited Federal power is a particular peeve of mine. If I were dictator, I would nullify every single example.

 

[gtodave]

What about my legal? I'm confused...

 

[Occam]

What about my legal? I'm confused...

If you don't enter a school zone, there's a risk that you'll miss the day where they teach the difference between "your" and "you're." It's usually the day before they tackle "they're," "there," and "their." But those of us that went the Baron von Grammarnazi School For Easily Annoyed Yutes got it hammered in properly, early on.

 

[swinokur]

Remember also the the GFSZA also uses the term “knowingly”

 

[Middleman]

Just a thought. The states don’t enforce federal laws the feds do. So what are the chances of the FBI doing a traffic stop on you in NC. Unless you’re under investigation already probably not going to happen.

 

[swinokur]

It’s usually an add on charge like the drug dealer just caught in Balt.

The Federal charge was added to the state charges

 

[swinokur]

Most reciprocity agreements are not promulgated by statute, but by the state AG.

No idea if that has any bearing on whether it is part of the phrase “licensed”

 

[lazarus]

Has anyone ever been prosecuted under this act?



By the way, the misuse of the Commerce Clause as an "elastic clause" to justify unlimited Federal power is a particular peeve of mine. If I were dictator, I would nullify every single example.

Hundreds of successful prosecutions.

Have any of them had a permit from another state that was recognized by the state they were in? Or were in a constitutional carry state after it when Con carry?

No idea.

Most have been of people obviously breaking other laws. Often transporting drugs too, or fleeing from police through a gun free school zone, etc.

Some have been if people (students/teachers/parents) caught with a gun on them or in their vehicle n

 

[Bob A]

As ever, if they want you, they can get you, whether you're deserving of the charge or not. Think Jan 6 for an illustration.

If you have enough money to beat the charge, you are probably already immune from serious prosecution.
Think Hunter Biden for an illustration.

 

[Inigoes]

Nothing new, this has always been an issue in open carry states where permits were not required.

 

[DanGuy48]

Just be sure you know that there's a catch. A catch that could be problematic under the right circumstances.

FEDERAL law makes it illegal to possess a gun within 1000 feet of a school zone.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/922#q

It shall be unlawful for any individual knowingly to possess a firearm that has moved in or that otherwise affects interstate or foreign commerce at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is a school zone.

Federal law defines a school zone to be any area within 1000 feet of a school.

There's an exception in the law for those with qualifying state licenses to carry. The law does not apply...

...if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located or a political subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or political subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified under law to receive the license;

There's also an exception to possessing a firearm on private property within the school zone that isn't part of the school, so you can carry on your own property if you live near a school.

Otherwise, unless you plan to ensure that you never get within 1000 feet of a school, you can't legally carry without a qualifying state permit--in ANY state. To comply with the law if you don't have a qualifying state issued permit to carry, your gun needs to be unloaded and locked up any time the federal gun free school zone law applies.

Some food for thought.

Thanks. I wasn’t aware of that.

 

[lazarus]

Nothing new, this has always been an issue in open carry states where permits were not required.

Actually good call. I hadn’t been thinking about that at all, but I seem to recall a few open carry cases where people were carrying (no permit needed) in a GFSZ and were arrested, charged, and convicted by the Feds.

 

[Occam]

Am I completely hallucinating FOPA's coverage for transport past a school? No, not open or concealed, but in official FOPA mode, with "possession" not an issue as you travel - perhaps unwittingly - within 1000 feet of a school?

 

[Inigoes]

Actually good call. I hadn’t been thinking about that at all, but I seem to recall a few open carry cases where people were carrying (no permit needed) in a GFSZ and were arrested, charged, and convicted by the Feds.

All of these people now discovering constitutional concealed carry (CC), only need to look at the open carry (OC) history to see what their rights really are because OC was constitutional carry for years.

Look at how open long gun carry was accepted here in Maryland.