Smelting Euipment

[stu929]

If I get the lead from flea bay I'm paying 1.70-2 bucks a lb. As I said this basically puts at a very very close pirce to buying premade bullets and I don't exactly know the make up of what I'm buying have to trust the seller.

Don't get me wrong I want to cast but it has to be financially viable which is why I ask the questions. Saving only a penny a round doesn't cut it for me.

 

[coopermania]

I have been casting my own bullets since just after high school a long time ago. Over the years, I have accumulated all sorts of different, and expensive, molds and pots. That said, I started with a 10 pound pot from Lee and a 230 round nose mold.

In those days I cast to save money. Today I cast because I get best accuracy out of my guns from bullets I cast myself.

As for getting lead, you can buy it from the salvage yards, gas stations and on flea bay.

If you know people in construction, ask about the lead sheet that is ripped out of showers, X ray rooms and the solder that comes from copper roofs. This type of lead is dead soft but can be shot if sized right for the bore and kept under 800fPS. In fact this is what I preferred to shoot out of my 1911's when I was competing in Bullseye competitions.

I also stay proficient by shooting air rifles and .22's in the front yard or basement. The spent lead from the bullet traps goes into the mix. And only the liberals think they recycle.

Casting bullets can be as simple or as complex as you choose to make it. Today, folks have it easier than I did as they can look on the internet for help. I had to find other casters in the area and join the Cast Bullet Association which sent out a monthly newsletter. Now it is all online.

Go for it.

Nice post John,
I agree with you on finding scrap lead, You just gotta poke around until you find a source that will hook you up for free or low cost. When I lived in Mechanicsville the guys at McCarthy Truck Tire would save all there wheel weights for the guys that cast bullets. Plumbers, roofers, elevator men and a few other trades come across lead ,lynotype and babbit all the time. And for wheel weights the last three 5 gallon buckets I melted down and turned into ingots, the end result was over 80 lbs clean lead per bucket. I spent about 3 hours labor and maybe 10 bucks in propane.

 

[Winterborn]

I guess if the ONLY reason you do anything is to save money, it may not be worth it.

I reload/cast/shoot because I like to do it. Personally, even if it cost me the exact same amount of money, I would still cast my own boolits and reload my own ammo.

Hell, I reload 12ga because I enjoy it, not because it saves me buckets of money (it saves a bit, but not an impressive amount per shell).

And there is the old cliche that you can tailor a load and a bullet for your gun, for your purposes.

There is great pleasure in tinkering and "puttering" in the garage or loading room.....my work life is stressful enough, I spend my time with my guns and reloading/casting because it relaxes me. The fact that it doesn't cost me extra (or even less than simply buying stuff) is icing.

My 3 cents...

TLR - if you are looking at getting into casting as a hobby, accept the fact that on some things you may not save much money vs buying bullets online: the satisfaction of creating your own should be worth breaking even, right?

 

[John from MD]

If I get the lead from flea bay I'm paying 1.70-2 bucks a lb. As I said this basically puts at a very very close pirce to buying premade bullets and I don't exactly know the make up of what I'm buying have to trust the seller.

Don't get me wrong I want to cast but it has to be financially viable which is why I ask the questions. Saving only a penny a round doesn't cut it for me.

If you are reloading or casting to save money, you probably shouldn't because the costs keeps going up. Everyone is feeling the pinch of the bad economy and the democrats ill advised social programs. Companies that used to give wheel weights away now sell them to the salvage yards. Builders who used to throw away excess aluminum, lead and copper now take it to the salvage yards.

If you only plink or shoot action pistol games, store bought lead bullets will serve you fine. You may get some leading with the .40 cal but a little scrubbing and you will be fine.

If you shoot bullseye, silhouette, or long range rifle, you will not be in the winners circle. While many of the younger generation will scoff at that statement, I have the awards and medals that say otherwise. If you want the best accuracy for a particular gun, you must tailor the load, including the bullet, for that gun.
Since these three types of shooting are on the decline except in the middle of the country, chances are there will be less and less of us casters in the future. In fact, most of my expensive molds that I sold went to people in Texas, New Mexico and Australia! Oh well, such is life.

 

[John from MD]

There is great pleasure in tinkering and "puttering" in the garage or loading room.....my work life is stressful enough, I spend my time with my guns and reloading/casting because it relaxes me.

I too led a stressful life in several different career fields. I always found the repetition of reloading to extremely relaxing. I could blank out my mind and just do one thing over and over.

It still works today when my stresses deal with aging rather than with work.

 

[stu929]

I guess if the ONLY reason you do anything is to save money, it may not be worth it.

I reload/cast/shoot because I like to do it. Personally, even if it cost me the exact same amount of money, I would still cast my own boolits and reload my own ammo.

Hell, I reload 12ga because I enjoy it, not because it saves me buckets of money (it saves a bit, but not an impressive amount per shell).

And there is the old cliche that you can tailor a load and a bullet for your gun, for your purposes.

There is great pleasure in tinkering and "puttering" in the garage or loading room.....my work life is stressful enough, I spend my time with my guns and reloading/casting because it relaxes me. The fact that it doesn't cost me extra (or even less than simply buying stuff) is icing.

My 3 cents...

TLR - if you are looking at getting into casting as a hobby, accept the fact that on some things you may not save much money vs buying bullets online: the satisfaction of creating your own should be worth breaking even, right?

I like doing things myself and I like the pride of making things but with time and money being tight casting may not be for me. If it could savee money I could justify the time but I honestly don't have that much time to shoot as it is between my job and being involved with my kids sporta. I was thinking of casting as a poor weather non range day activity but if I'm coming out equal to or more expensive then I may just pass.

I enjoy handloading and was debating adding this to the list but financially it just may not make sense.

 

[303_enfield]

Here to learn and buy cheap lead and stuff:
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/

Better learn now while you can.

 

[303_enfield]

Here to learn and buy cheap lead and stuff:
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/

Better learn now while you can.

 

[j8064]

Casting boolits is not for everyone. But after 20+ years of rendering WW's, filling molds, lubing/sizing cb's and building nice ammo from my efforts i have no regrets.

Like reloading itself, casting is an extension of my range time as a hobby. If one embarks on casting with the intent to save $'s on reloading, one will be disappointed. The initial cost of equipment, supplies and invested time will not be a positive ROI in the short term. If that's what a 'new to casting' person has in mind buying commercial cb's is a better option.

On the other hand, over time my casting ability now keeps me shooting many pistol and rifle calibers for MUCH less than buying factory ammo. A pot of molten lead can be cast into 30+ different cb's on my bench. Fact is I can't even remember when I last bought any factory 45acp, 45 colt, 44mag, 357/38, 9mm or 380 pistol ammo, but I'm never without plenty of range ammo on hand. My casting also keeps a lot of C&R rifles like 8x57 Mauser, 8x56r, 7.7j, 30 carbine, 303b and so many others well fed for MUCH less than current ammo prices.

Sure, these days bulk WW's will include steel, aluminum and zinc junk. The Lee 20# electric pot will not get hot enough to melt the junk and it's not hard to either recognize the junk before it goes into the pot or skim it off. The WW cheap WW buckets I get are still about 80% usable alloy. I don't agree with some folk's notion that sorting WW lead is a waste of time. Folks who believe that should then purchase their supplies and not be bothered.

At the end of the day casting one's own boolits can be very economical over time. And cb's can keep some guns shooting when factory ammo is scarce. The fun part is casting your own can produce great satisfaction as part of the whole reloading hobby.

 

[rico903]

Yes sir, you do need lead to cast bullets, but, you don't smelt a bullet. I'm curious if you only want to smelt impure lead in to ingots or if you want to melt ingots to cast bullets. It's two different processes. I wasn't sure if you only want to pour ingots or if you actually wanted to use the lead for casting bullets. Smelting is the process of removing impurities of a raw material to be used for other products. Casting is the process of using a pure material to create new products. I wasn't clear if you only wanted to make ingot from raw dirty material or cast bullets because you only asked about smelting equipment and not casting equipment.

Thanks for the help. I think I can get wheel weights or maybe even some old printing lead. How do you determine the purity of the material? I basically wanted to melt the weights etc into ingots and then cast when needed. As you can see I know nothing. This is something I just started considering for the winter. I guess I could always buy lead from a range. I do know there are regular cast and hard cast bullets. I guess I have to start studying.

 

[rico903]

http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.c...LEAD BULLET CASTING&dept3=MELTING POTS & KITS

Get the Lyman cast bullet book and a cheap Lee mold and Alox, as mentioned earlier. You don't need to smelt anything to start, just throw all your wheel weights or other lead in the pot, let it melt, skim the dross, pour the lead into your mold. It's not very difficult at all, just make sure you are outside and it isn't raining.

Take the cast bullets, put them in a baggie or plastic dish, put some Alox in and shake it good, let them dry on wax paper. Load them and shoot.

As far as finding lead, you are correct, it is probably better to order cast bullets if you don't have a cheap source. The only exception would be if you wanted to cast bullets that aren't available in bulk, or are very expensive, such as shotgun slugs, or 300gr .44 bullets, or gas checked designs. If you just want 200 gr SWC in .45, or 155 TC in .40 or something common, it is easier to just order them.

I believe you are right. It seems like a lot of work to start from scratch. If I can find a good local source for bullets that seems to be the way to go. Shipping has got to be a fortune.

 

[rico903]

I understand what you are trying to explain, but, I guess the way I see it is simply from a "what do you need" stand-point. My reason for the troubles of casting is due to my extensive needs for Muzzleloader bullets and Shotgun Slugs. My big peeve is the cost of factory Muzzleloader bullets and Slugs from the stores. Sabots for ML bullets are $6.00 / 50 pcs. and ML bullets from the store average $25.00 to $32.00 per 20 bullets. I cast 200+ bullets with sabots for that $25.00 That math doesn't need much pondering to see why I cast .45 cal bullets for my .50 ML's

The same with shotgun slugs. Average cost of a box of 5 slugs is anywhere between $7.00 and $15.00 now if you cast your own, for example, I can make 200 slugs for either 12 gauge or 20 gauge for less than that $15.00 Again, it doesn't require much thought to see the savings.

When buying lead you have to find the best, cheapest, stuff you can. What I find to be the biggest waste of time and what I feel makes the whole lead procurement thing a waste overall for casting bullets is using raw WW. The time added to cleaning, sorting, smelting, fluxing, skimming, etc only to end up with a few usable pounds out of a 5 gallon bucket... I'd rather pay for the already processed ingots and get on with it. The invested in the previous processing is more valuable than the cost of paying for an ingot ready to make bullets with.

It basically, in my own opinion and experience, depends on what you "need" If you can buy a box of 100 bullets for $15.00 versus making you own for $15.00 then buy the pre-made bullets. But I can't afford to buy only 20 bullets for $25.00 for a Muzzleloader... That's $1.25 per shot and it's not even a live ammo round with powder or primer. For that $1.25 ingot I make 25 bullets. That's a, ball park savings of $14.00 over commercial ML bullets. I can make a hell of lot of ML bullets for $14.00 Now if you cast for a .45 ACP... I cast for a .45 Colt / Govt for my ML bullets you also can make a heck of a lot of bullets for $14.00

Of course this only if you choose to shoot an all lead bullet. If you want copper, plated, jacketed, whatever, then you have to buy your bullets.

I hope I explained that ok...

Quite well, thanks

 

[rico903]

Thanks for all the help folks. Saving money was not my primary goal. What I want to be able to do is put my brass to work and not have to look for ammo all the time in these times. It would seem if I can find a good source for CB locally that's my best bet.

 

[Pinecone]

Add in your time these days, and casting is not for low cost.

When I started casting, I could get scrap linotype for 30 cents a pound. Melt, skim the doss and cast nice hard bullets.

But now, not worth it at $2 per pound. BUT, when there is a shortage of bullets, being able to cast your own means you can still reload (of course you still have to find powder and primers ).

As for what alloy you have, for handgun and reasonable velocities, it isn't that big of a deal. But you can test the hardness. Either by buying a hardness tester, or by making something that will do it. Basically hardness testing is applying a pointed piece to the metal tested, using a certain amount of force and measuring how far it penetrates (or how big the hole is). You could use a spring and a nail.

You can also mix metals. Get some commercial head casting compound and mix with your unknown metal. If you assume the unknown is pure lead (the softest) and mix with something like linotype in a ratio that would be usable, if the unknown has any tin or antimony, you are harder that you may need.

Good info here: http://www.lasc.us/SuperHard.htm

They assume clip on wheel weights are 2% antimony and 0.5% tin. Stick on at 0% antimony and 0.5% tin.

Another source of tin is 50/50 bar solder from plumbing supply. Home Depot used to carry 1 pound bars, but I haven't look recently.

 

[SOMDSHOOT]

Add in your time these days, and casting is not for low cost.

When I started casting, I could get scrap linotype for 30 cents a pound. Melt, skim the doss and cast nice hard bullets.

But now, not worth it at $2 per pound. BUT, when there is a shortage of bullets, being able to cast your own means you can still reload (of course you still have to find powder and primers ).

As for what alloy you have, for handgun and reasonable velocities, it isn't that big of a deal. But you can test the hardness. Either by buying a hardness tester, or by making something that will do it. Basically hardness testing is applying a pointed piece to the metal tested, using a certain amount of force and measuring how far it penetrates (or how big the hole is). You could use a spring and a nail.

You can also mix metals. Get some commercial head casting compound and mix with your unknown metal. If you assume the unknown is pure lead (the softest) and mix with something like linotype in a ratio that would be usable, if the unknown has any tin or antimony, you are harder that you may need.

Good info here: http://www.lasc.us/SuperHard.htm

They assume clip on wheel weights are 2% antimony and 0.5% tin. Stick on at 0% antimony and 0.5% tin.

Another source of tin is 50/50 bar solder from plumbing supply. Home Depot used to carry 1 pound bars, but I haven't look recently.

Funny you should mention that Pinecone. I had a buddy of mine bring me some more of that good scrap roofing lead ( gawd that stuff makes and excellent bullet ) and he also had 2 new bars of that soldering stuff in the box. That is common hard stuff and I am curious what is in it. I mean you almost have to strain to get the bar to bend over. I know one that, it would make some excellent hard cast muzzleloader bullets, but, I'm not 100% sure what it's made of to use it for anything else. Any info on this bar stuff would be very much appreciated.

 

[stu929]

Rico

What cast bullets are you looking for? I'm getting ready to do a group buy. If the total order goes over 10k we get 10% off which with the current cost of lead would .ake it the same as casting.

 

[rico903]

Rico

What cast bullets are you looking for? I'm getting ready to do a group buy. If the total order goes over 10k we get 10% off which with the current cost of lead would .ake it the same as casting.

Thanks .38, .45, 9mm in that order. Just let me know.

 

[Pinecone]

Funny you should mention that Pinecone. I had a buddy of mine bring me some more of that good scrap roofing lead ( gawd that stuff makes and excellent bullet ) and he also had 2 new bars of that soldering stuff in the box. That is common hard stuff and I am curious what is in it. I mean you almost have to strain to get the bar to bend over. I know one that, it would make some excellent hard cast muzzleloader bullets, but, I'm not 100% sure what it's made of to use it for anything else. Any info on this bar stuff would be very much appreciated.

If it is bar solder, it will be marked as to the alloy. Typically 50/50 or 60/40. Lead and tin.

It is in the plumbing supply section, but I have not looked for it for a while.

 

[SOMDSHOOT]

If it is bar solder, it will be marked as to the alloy. Typically 50/50 or 60/40. Lead and tin.

It is in the plumbing supply section, but I have not looked for it for a while.

Very good sir. I'll have to check those bars today sometime and see if they have any markings on them at all. They are in the box, but, I never did much more than grab one and tried to bend it to see about fitting it in my pot. These bards are about 12" long I guess.

 

[stu929]

Thanks .38, .45, 9mm in that order. Just let me know.

I know they have all of those in stock. I will msg you today or tomorrow, Im trying to get together a bigger order to get a discount.