SKS/DMR

[Mark75H]

PSL mags are pricey and hard to find in good shape. But I lOVE mine

They are more accurate and can shoot heavy ball unlike the PSL
We have people on the AKfourm working on converting them to SVD mags

There are a couple retailers selling PSL mags for $45, could be a lot worse - how many does a person need when you can only shoot the gun accurately at 3 rounds in 5 minutes? Sounds like 2 is all a sane person would need.


Real Dragunov SVD mags are selling for $65, there's a pile of them on GB. A solid parade of PSL mags on eBay from $45-$75 ... no shortage of either that I can see; for the past couple months there has been at least 2 for sale on eBay at decent prices all the time (disregarding the perpetual re-listed $70 - $100 GB auctions).

I just sold my last tuned up PSL mag for $75 on eBay. I'll probably sell my PSL at a slight loss if Jerry Hunt (http://blackhorsearsenal.gostorego.com/) comes thru with his US made bull barrel SVD next spring.

 

[Forest]

That's silly. At 400 yards your point of aim would already have to be about 4 feet high. At 500 yards you would be aiming at the sky.

Even with the 100" drop from a 16" carbine shooting M43 at 500y, that is only a 19MOA adjustment on the scope.

Will that be near the limits of a 1" scope - yep, but it's still doable (you're in a better position if you have a 30mm scope and/or a mount with built in 10 moa of cant).

However assuming only an extra 100fps (say at 2450fps) that is only a 17.3 moa adjustment off of zero.

That's assuming a 200y zero to start with.

 

[Nemesis]

Lol yep, that pics funny though...who zeros at a rifle at 25 yards? Lol

Anyway...using 7.62 isint perfect by any means in terms of performance, but over all its the best option to go with. Dont get stuck just looking at the drop of the round at its maximum range and trash the whole thing...frankly if a targets 500 yards off i would grab a full on sniper rifle over any dmr anyway. Using 7.62 will allow him to have an effective rifle within its normal range, only stock one caliber (im sure the dmr would be using a different make/type of bullet than the assault counterpart however you can just simply use the less accurate ammo when the dmr needs to be an assault rifle) mags will be the same, spare parts will be the same...just seems to work better to me...

 

[Half-cocked]

Lol yep, that pics funny though...who zeros at a rifle at 25 yards? Lol

A 25 yard zero is common. Look again at the graph. The bullet crosses zero at 25 yards, reaches about 3" over the sight axis, then crosses zero again at ~200 yards. That's a pretty effective battle sight zero, useful from 0 all the way out to well past 200 yards. It's actually a better BSZ, in this particular setup, than a 50 yard zero.

AR's shooting 5.56 are better served with a 50 yard zero.

 

[Nemesis]

Intetesting...yea i guess that works. I dont like the idea aiming low though, id rather just know my hold over. I have my sgl zerord at 75...ill give a 25 yard zero a try sometime...though it still seems odd, but hey...its worth a try i guess.

 

[Mark75H]

Its not aiming low, its aiming dead on.

Dead on at 25 is dead on at 200; there is no "hold over"

 

[Nemesis]

A 25 yd zero is not going to be dead on at 100...or 125, or 75...at any ranges in between 25 and 200 youre going to have to hold your point of aim below the target to land the shot...right?

 

[Mark75H]

A 25 yd zero is not going to be dead on at 100...or 125, or 75...at any ranges in between 25 and 200 youre going to have to hold your point of aim below the target to land the shot...right?

That's why the rear leaf has adjustments ... zero at 25/200 ... change the leaf from 200 to your present range ... no hold over

Scopes have clicks on their elevation turrets that are in known calibration units for known ammo. Some scopes have hash mark hold overs, adjust according to however your particular scope functions. Mine have marks on the turrets, 2 clicks per reference mark ... stays dead on from 50 to 500

 

[Half-cocked]

Do you need to hit closer than 3" to your point of aim?

The purpose of a battle rifle like an SKS, AK, or AR is to hit bad guys, not shoot the nuts off squirrels, or perform lobotomies on groundhogs.

A decent group on a target at 100 yards is a worthy goal, and it really doesn't matter if it's 3" above POA, or right on it. Most people's groups with iron sights at that range are going to be larger than the measly 3" rise, anyway.

If you want real precision, ragged one-hole groups, an SKS isn't your best choice anyway.

 

[DarthZed]

Honestly, get a Mosin Nagant, same cartridge (7.62x54R) and you can buy 50 for the price of 1 Dragunov.

Fixed it for you!

 

[DarthZed]

A 25 yard zero is common. Look again at the graph. The bullet crosses zero at 25 yards, reaches about 3" over the sight axis, then crosses zero again at ~200 yards. That's a pretty effective battle sight zero, useful from 0 all the way out to well past 200 yards. It's actually a better BSZ, in this particular setup, than a 50 yard zero.

AR's shooting 5.56 are better served with a 50 yard zero.

I use 50m for all my 7.62x39 guns. I like the very flat trajectory between 0-100m, and a 6" holdover at 200 is more than reasonable. I seriously doubt I would ever be engaging a target beyond 600ft in this area; and my crappy eyes would probably be the weak link at that point anyway. lol Though I can see where the 25m zero works well too.

I also zero my .308's at 50 as well. It is supposed to give a zero at 50m and 200m. Which looks similar ballistically to the 25m 7.62x39 trajectory.

 

[gulfwarsubvet]

5?

More like 30 or 40 Mosins. A real Russian SVD goes for $3000-5000. Now Romanian PSLs go for around $1000, and look like a Dragunov, but aren't the same internally.

Makes me wish I had a time machine sometimes. I remember walking around the old DC Armory, probably 92 or 93 and a few Russian SVDs on the table for $600-700. I bought my Russian SKS that day for $109, in almost new condition,......off of a table with about 15 others on it. Mosins were selling for $35-40. I bought 2 - 240 round battle packs of military ball .223 for $25 each. That was back when everyone wanted an AR but few people had one. My how times change. Just about everyone with a .223 back then either had a mini or a contender.

 

[Scott7891]

A DMR for it to be called one "officially" must have a caliber that is at least 7.62x51 NATO and can easily transition back into a normal rifle. Examples include the Dragunov and U.S. M21.

The SKS is not a DMR. It is a nifty carbine with a tad more accuracy than an AK but is definitely not a DMR.

 

[rem87062597]

VEPR in 7.62x54R perhaps? That can reach out pretty far as well as be pretty cheap to feed, regardless of whether or not you're willing to run corrosive ammunition. Plus it looks amazing.

 

[Nemesis]

A DMR for it to be called one "officially" must have a caliber that is at least 7.62x51 NATO and can easily transition back into a normal rifle. Examples include the Dragunov and U.S. M21.

The SKS is not a DMR. It is a nifty carbine with a tad more accuracy than an AK but is definitely not a DMR.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Designated_marksman_rifle#section_2

1/3 of these are 5.56...the m21 and drag are both clasdified as sniper rifles...

 

[Mark75H]

Directly from the link:

The SVD was the first rifle designed from the outset as what is now known as a designated marksman rifle.

 

[Nemesis]

Svd means dragunovs sniper rifle...the m21 sniper weapon system? Sure, either can be a dmr, any semi auto magnified optic rifle can be...that doesnt change what a true dmr really is. Its whatever though, ive added my .02

 

[armed ferret]

Lol yep, that pics funny though...who zeros at a rifle at 25 yards? Lol

The U.S. military.


Lol.

 

[Mark75H]

Svd means dragunovs sniper rifle...

Only because the Russian language does not have separate words for sniper and marksman

 

[Sirex]

I absolutely LOVE my SKS, but if I needed greater range, AND had a bare budget, I'd go with 7.62x54r and a Mosin M39 or I hope one day a M28/76. If I required a semi auto rifle I would grab a Vepr in 54r. The receiver is thicker than a PSL's, has a thicker barrel, and chromed inside for corrosion resistance. Centerfire HAD them on sale, and most sold out, but I would wonder with the success of the pre-election sale, if they have a black friday sale too. The Veprs were about the price of the PSL, with varying barrel lengths, and much cheaper than the Tiger/SVD rifles. Just an idea since I am a budget oriented shooter.